hiya guys,

id love to know who u guys think was the better director & pls pls...

pls- give ur reasons for ur choice.

many thanx.

eagerly awaiting for ur resonse.

many thanx once agin in advance.

Bash.

Its Manj-ji for me for his non stop entertainment films. His films didn't give you time think logic and the editing was masterful. In the three hours you would have drama, emotion, comedy and great music.

in 1977 he gave four silver jubilee hits Parvarish, Dharam-Veer, Chacha Bhatija & Amar AkbarAnthony a feat that remains unmatched by any other other director. Also Man-ji gave me my favourite Amitabh character to date "Anthony Gonsalves". AAA was shot in a record time 3 months when filming during the 70's would take 2-3 years.

Prakash Mehra was top notch too but Man-ji just shades it for me.

Regs
Saj

hiya saj,

thank u for ur very detailed, interesting & kind contribution.

once again it was extremely informative & very educational.

look forward to hearing from u again in the future mate.

keep watching those classics.

thanx again.

BASH

definetly Manmohan Desai for me, firstly due to the fact that PM did not use Laxmi_Pyare for his movies, secondly ,PM's film were a tad too dark in their nature and thirdly "technically" i found his films were cheap, like some scenes in Hera Pheri where there is no lighting and sound qaulity wasnt too good either. but but........
ironically i find bachchan's comedy far funnier in PM's movies than MD's, for instance , Hera Pheri, Namak Halaal and some scenes of Sharaabi are very funny compared to AAA, NASEEB and COOLIE.

thats all for now, but u will here much more from me where film directors are concerned, i am currently in the midst of writing analysis on films by Subhash Ghai, J.P Dutta, Manmohan Desai, Prakash Mehra And Yash Chopra.

Bash, get ready for a good roasting, as i can guess who your choice is between PM and MD

hiya dharmaan,



ur comments are extremely interesting!

i really enjoyed ur points of view.

but YES ur right i do differ completely!

i think because ur a L-P fan its only natural that ud go for MANJI!

but im sorry....

personally i CANT seperate them.

thanx again.



P.S.

dont forget to mention PRAKASH MEHRA when involved with AMITABH BACHCHAN-

from 1973 to 1989 only had one flop JAADUGAR (1989).

thats one of the GREATEST successful track records of all time!

take care,

BASH.

from the top of my head, on Shri Bachchan with both MD and PM, i make it 7 hits of MD -to- PM's 6

PM
1-zanjeer
2-hera pheri
3-muqaddar ka sikandar
4-laawaris
5-namak halaal
6-sharaabi


MD
1-Parvarish
2-amar akbar anthony
3-suhaag
4-naseeb
5-desh premi
6-coolie
7-mard

so the greatest track record of PM is second to MD's.
but i have to say i find it very fascinating, that where MKD Films were glorious as a whole package, PM's were films of "moments" of sheer brilliance, take Sharaabi for instance, "aaj utni bhi sharaab nahin hai paimane mein, jitni hum chod diya karte the maikhane mein", and the mujra scene with Jaya pradha is just magic, as are all the scenes with Om Prakash. From my POV thats one of the strongest points in favour of PM that, he could truly create great cinematic moments.

baqi baad mein

It was Prakash Mehra who helped Amitabh become a star and according to PM, today Amitabh has forgotten that, which is sad (if its true). Had Zanjeer not been the breakthrough Amitabh was looking for, maybe the history books would have been different. MKS, Sharaabi, Lawaaris are all hits that Prakash Mehra gave to Amitabh. Also, Amitabh's role in Man Desai's Toofan was similar to his role in PM's Jaadugar, and the films were being made at the same time. Manmohan Desai also made hit films with Amitabh like AAA, Naseeb, Suhaag etc.

However the question here is not their films with the Big B, but about their films overall. Both were great directors but I have a soft corner for Manmohan Desai because he made all-round films with great entertainment and nice stories.

Also the music in MD films was excellent and I feel more consistent than music from PM films. M. Desai's combination with L-P and Rafi saab produced a string of winners.

hiya mate,


DONT FORGET khoon pasina (1977).

on top of my head i make it :




2- flops for MANMOHAN DESAI. (ganga jumna saraswathi 1988 & toofaan 1989)

1- flops PRAKASH MEHRA. (jaadugar 1989)



SO WAT DOES THIS MEAN?

p.s.


pls also note it was PRAKASH MEHRA who had faith & stuck by amitabh when he was a nobody

(ZANJEER 1973).



take care.

BASH.

Bash, I think ull find khoon Pasina was directed by Raakesh kumar (do aur do paanch, Mr Natwarlal, Yaarana) and not Prakash Mehra, it may have been produced by Chaudhary Enterprises ( i think that was the name praksah mehra's company?).

uve pointed out the flops, where did that come from? i thought we were talking about "successful" track record, eg continuous hits, and of course Toofan was directed by MD's puttar Ketan Desai, still under MKD/Aasia banner, but not directed By MD.

i think that should clear up your shaque/shubeh

Only after Dev Anand, Raaj Kumar and Dharmendra said "No" to the film, did he stick by AB !.

hiya dharmaan

sorry for a slow reply im at work!

i know who directed khoon perfectly well mate- believe me!

khoon pasina- is regarded as a prakash mehra production because of his links with chaudharys enterprises

just like.

coolie was directed as much by prayag raj as manji but we still choose to ignore prayag raj!



pls dont forget-


flops are extremely important as hits to measure a artistes track record.

hence as much as u want to argue its common knowledge that manji directed TOOFAAN.

if TOOFAAN was a hit- it wud have classed a MANJI film not ketan desai.

the fact is:

MANJI had 2 flops & PRAKASH MEHRA had 1 flop.

p.s.

the question is wud u still have felt the same about MANJI if he had NOT used L-P as the music directors in

his films or got rafi to sing in his movies.

to be honest mate- I DOUBT IT!

TAKE CARE.

BASH.

hiya mate,



ur absolutey right.

im the biggest fan of amitabh trust me.

even so atleast prakash mehra chose amitabh eventually- unlike manji he waited like the rest until


amitabh was successful until before he decided to sign him first time!

BASH.

I MUST ADMIT-

ONE THING I LOVED ABOUT U WAS THE FACT -

U WERE HONEST ENUFF TO SAY-

U PREFERED MANJI OVER PRAKASH MEHRA COS U HAD A SOFT SPOT FOR

MANJI. (WHICH I CANT ARGUE WITH COS THATS UR PERSONAL OPINION).

ALSO U SAID MANJI HAD BETTER MUSIC THAN PRAKASH MEHRA IN HIS MOVIES.




I TOTALLY DISAGREE IM AFRAID.

I THINK KALYANJI-ANANDJI DID AS WELL FOR PRAKASH MEHRA AS L-P DID FOR MANJI.



THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS MANJI DIDNT SHOE LOYALTY TO L-P & DROPPED THEM WHERE AS PRAKASH

MEHRA STAYED SINCERE TOWARDS KALYANJI-ANANDJI.

(ONLY WHEN THEY RETIRED AFTER LAWAARIS BAPPHI DA WAS BROUGHT ).



TAKE CARE.


BASH.

yes i admit, if Manji had not used LP, then my views would have been different, im more of a technical and serious viewer of movies, and hence, my dvd categories are listed in director order rather that actor order.
but i find due to budget of the films , Man got the big producers behind him, whereas prakash on the other hand had to at times go gorilla style (ie, independent film makiing), which is why some of his films are not techncally brilliant, but respect goes to him for making the films he wanted to despite big banners not financing him. u know its funny that im arguing/debating this, when neither PM or Md are in my Favourite directors list. but due to the nature of your initial post, i had to answer it truthfully.

here is my top 3 directors:

1-J.P Dutta
2-Subhash Ghai
3-Yash Chopra

id love to know your list of top directors plz


thnx

to be honest,

prakash mehra is a far superior director than manji as regards to performances & perfection but manji was

the master entertainer & no one cud handle a multi starrer like he cud- total credit goe to him he was a

genius in that respect.

but as manji said himself his films werent meant to be logical or deep just fun.



but prakash mehra films were very powerful, very deep, great meaningful bold dialogues, relevant popular

songs, unbelivable performances some of the very best in amitabhs careeers best ever (eg muqaddar ka sikandar & lawaaris). He was very versatile he did action, comedy & drama with equal ease & success.
with top class direction every time..


he was cheap but logical.

he was slow but detailed.

he was dull but prakash mehra....

was a perfectionist.



he was a real actors director.


i dnt rate yash chopra as highly as many cos he also has poor endings for some reasons as everone knows.

subhash ghai the less i say about him the better.

where is he now? get anyone & everyone to direct for him his lost his pride confidence everything.

J.P.DUTTA i totally agree with u is a class act.

my favourite directors wud be some listed below:



BIMAL ROY.

GURU DUTT.

RAJ KAPOOR

HARIKESH MUKHERJI.

K.ASIF.

MEHBOOB KHAN.

NARINDER BEDI.

PRAKASH MEHRA.

J.P. DUTTA.

MANI RATNAM.

PRIYA DARSHAN.



take care.

BASH.

I noticed this discussion has gotten completely out of the original context and zoomed in on AB ....which is fine ofcourse.

Bash, although I like Man Desai better, I also admire PM as he was a good director.

It's true, Prakash Mehra gave Amitabh the chance but only after he had approached others and he thought Amitabh would suit the role in Zanjeer. After this film other directors such as Man Desai (as you mentioned) signed him. I think although Prakash Mehra gave him the breakthrough he was looking for, it was Hrishikesh Mukherjee who tried to showcase AB differently with films like Mili, Abhimaan, Chupke Chupke etc. Although the Big B at the time was known for his violent films and "Angry Young Man" image, HM tried to offer him more different roles. Right now AB is playing more diverse roles which was not the case then, and has evolved into a much better actor (IMO), but he did become famous for his "Angry" Image and that is what made him a star.
As Yash Chopra was mentioned, I see him as more of a romance director, but with AB there was Deewar that was obviously for AB's "Angry" image, as well as Trishul and then the softer Kabhi Kabhi along with Silsila that was supposed to showcase the real-life AB-Rekha romance. Manmohan Desai's films totally created AB into a box-office sensation cashing in on his "Angry" image but yet making films full of entertainment as he was known for.

Now coming to the music, I mentioned MD's films had more consistent music than PM's, I never said better, (although that is my opinion of their overall record). Just to briefly look at some of their albums, IMO Haseena Maan Jaayegi and Mela were superb, Zanjeer was nice, MKS is I feel the best of the PM-KA team, Lawaaris and Hera Pheri were alright overall though they had some good songs. The reason why K-A went out and Bappi came in is because K-A told PM that it would be better if he signed diff. music directors every two films to have that freshness in his scores. Bappi came in and Namak Halal and Sharaabi also have some good songs but PM had better overall albums earlier. I am not a fan of Bappi of the 80's and onwards (with a few exceptions), I feel he had much better music in the mid to late 70's.
Again briefly, Manmohan Desai had K-A with Sacha Jhoota which was good, Aa Gale Lag Ja with RDB was nice, and with L-P he had AAA, Dharam Veer, Suhaag, Naseeb, Chacha Bhatija, Parvarish etc which are all filled with great songs. I feel overall MD had better albums which were more all-round compared to PM's albums, which is why I felt his movies had more consistently good music. Saying this, I don't really like some of MD's 80's albums, L-P were not their usual self in the 80's and with Rafi saab gone, the overall HFM scene was pathetic, but I was mentioning in general compared to PM.
K-A did some good work with PM, but I feel the MD-LP team was a step ahead, and even in their Big B films, I feel MD had the overall edge in the music department. This is all my opinion ofcourse, as tastes differ from person to person.

Coming to J.P. Dutta as both you and Dharmaan bhai brought up, I also like some of his films but his latest Umrao Jaan didn't do too well.

Great discussion, keep it up !

i take ur points on board mate.

lets just agree to disagree!

but its simple u have based views around l-p & mohd. rafi.

i think K-As music for PRAKASH MEHRA was as good if not bettter than L-Ps for MANMOHAN DESAI.

dnt forget MANMOHAN DESAI dropped L-P after COOLIE (1983) remember?

according to u music of LAWAARIS was ok?

im amazed... absolutely amazed!

uv confirmed my point- ZANJEER, HASINA MAAN JAYEGI & MELA were good scores for u cos they were

MOHD. RAFI really!

i mean im biased too but not to this extent!

also K-A decided to retire around 1980 anyway-

so not:

they left & were not DROPPED!



i must admit im NOT a bapphi lahiri fan by any stretch of the imagination BUT...

bapphi lahiris contribution to PRAKASH MEHRA films was exceptional!

SORRY MATE.

like i said brother-

lets AGREE TO DISAGREE!

P.S.

manmohan desai WAS THE MASTER ENTERTAINER no logic

prakash mehra WAS DIRECTOR WHO GOT EMOTIONS & PAID PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO DETAIL LIKE NO

OTHER!

both geniuses in their unique way.

take care.

BASH.

Good way of putting it



Yes I regard Rafi as the greatest and L-P as one of the best ever, but I also have a high regard for K-A (who are one of my fav's) and consider them amongst the best we have had, this is nothing to do with being bias, its just that I feel the scores themselves were good. It seems that if one states an opinion and someone does not agree, it becomes a bias view, how is this possible ?.



We weren't discussing dropping of MD's anyways, it was just about the music in their films. HMJ, MKS, Zanjeer were all great albums, but others from PM-KA were not as good as these three IMO.



I'm amazed why you're so amazed. Yes overall it was alright, the only songs I like from Lawaaris are the KK-AB duet and Amitabh's song, I feel the rest are average, and I don't consider the album better than MKS or other PM-KA combos. It may have been a hit in the 80's, but K-A generally in the 80's were also no great shakes leaving aside some great albums. K-A have albums in their career that are much better than Lawaaris (that too during the 80's), I think you won't find mention of this album amongst their very best, and the PM-KA team gave better music before this came out.



I don't think I've confirmed anything, again if I've stated an opinion, it doesn't mean I am bias, you are getting the two totally mixed up. Everyone has a bias towards something, but what I mentioned didn't have anything to do with it. The scores merit a mention by themselves for the quality music.

First of all, Zanjeer only had one song by Rafi, a duet with Lata, HMJ is one of K-A's best scores and Mela is also ranked amongst RD's best creative works, the fact that they have Rafi just adds to the quality, but that had nothing to do with why I listed them, I was just saying PM's earlier works had good scores, and that too by K-A !.....the discussion was on K-A not Rafi.



K-A did not retire around 1980, they retired in the late eighties. I never said they were dropped, if you read my post, I mentioned the reason why PM took BL, because K-A advised him to take other MD's to generate freshness in his films.



To each his own .



Both were great but I also feel there are other directors who were better than them in other aspects, but yes both were talented.

Cheers

ofcourse MANMOHAN DESAI
for is action packed movies with amitabh bachchan like:
naseeb
coolie
amar akbar anthony
desh premee
toofan
suhaag
mard
parvarish

wat can i say?

UR RIGHT dost!

p.s.

im a huge KISHORE KUMAR fan...

but i still admit RAFI was by far the MORE SUPERIOR as a SINGER!

see thats wat i mean. (KISHORES my favourite yet i still acknowledge RAFIS superiority)


or like...


im not a BAPPHI DA fan but as i said before... his work in NAMAK HALAAL & SHARAABI was EXCEPTIONAL!

i respect ur point about everyone being slightly bias but being ABSOLUTELY & totally biased is MAD!!!

K-A officially CONSIDERED retirment early 80s.

the reason why u still heard their music throughout the 80s was the fact they were completing their projects

which naturally takes a lot of time.

PRAKASH MEHRA & FEROZ KHAN the 2 major reasons why came out of retirment.

take care.

BASH.

Manmohan Desai Or Prakash Mehra...
Neither............I have seen Amar Akbar.. and Naseeb and a couple of others..... n Lawaris and Zanjeer......except for zanjeer which was good,all the other movies were successful mainly bec of the charismatic presence of amitabh.....same hackneyed theme shuffled and repeated over and over again in all their films........

hiya dost,



L.O.L!!!!!!


i think theres a bit more to it than that friend!

& also i think theyre both directors than u give them CREDIT for but...

i respect ur opinion i dnt agree with it but atleast its different.


p.s.

u need to watch a few more PRAKASH MEHRA & MANMOHAN DESAI movies.

u dnt know wat ur MISSING u really dnt!!!


take away P-M & MANJI then basically u take away nearly all of AMITABH success!

Iwud love to know ur FAVOURITE amitabh movie & the REASON for it!!!

take care.

BASH.

hey dost,

pls take part in my other thread 'UR FAVOURITE' amitabh film & the reason.

really look forward to that.

take care.

bash.

I have not seen many movies of Amitabh but among the ones i have seen ..... Abhimaan and Zanjeer were good....i feel that Silsila wd have been a great movie if only they had one else in Rekha's place......i find her extremely irritating as an actress...

HIYA DOST,


thanx for ur choice i GREE i think SILSILA wasA TOP MOVIE.

but once again im really i DISAGREE with u as u dnt like rekha infact she irritates BUT...

she is one of the best actressess ever to grace bollwood & thats a fact.

so ur opinion is NOT a general view.

'UMRAO JAAN' will proove that if u watch it carefully!

she has everything as a VERSATILE actress.

shes often regarded as the female 'AMITABH BACHCHAN' so i suppose THAT SAYS IT ALL.


p.s.

RAAKHEE irritates me but- i still acknowledge the fact shes a very good actress indeed.

well atleast u speak ur MIND dost & i RESPECT u for that greatly!

take care.


BASH.

Dost,

I appreciate your honesty, it's great to know that you being a big Kishore fan consider Rafi to be the more superior singer.

Thanks for the info on K-A. I have heard a different version about K-A's retirement, can you please shed some light on this.

What I heard is that K-A signed films throughout the 80's and then towards the end of that decade Viju Shah came in and started assisting them and did quite a bit of work in terms of composing tunes, arranging music etc. in their last films as a duo, then they officially considered retiring after.

I will take part in your 'Fav Amitabh Film' thread soon ....Thanks for the note.

Cheers

hiya yaar,


thank u very much for ur kind words! sincerely appreciate it.

to let u into a secret iam an journalist thats my background obviuskly apart from having a database of

knowledge in my head.

iv been in the media bussiness for a LONG TIME now!

so trust me brother i dnt give u fiction everything i say is backed up with hard core evidence which iv

collected all my life non stop with pure dedication.


i used to present a specialist musical show on radio in birmingham, england (u.k.) for years.

called 'THE BIG BOMBAY BASH'.



P.S.

HONESTY IS MY BIGGEST 'weakness' actually!

i LOST so many friends because i openinly said i was a out & out KISHORE KUMAR fan.

they were outraged that a PAKISTANI guy CUD PREFER kishore OVER the GREAT mohd. rafi.

knowing that MOHD. RAFI sahaab was the GREATEST i stilll spoke my mind & IT COST ME A LOT OF PEOPLE!


THATS ME i dont follow sheep!

i like to give full credit where its deserved!

sorry to bore u!

thanx for listening!


take care.


BASH.

"" i LOST so many friends because i openinly said i was a out & out KISHORE KUMAR fan.

they were outraged that a PAKISTANI guy CUD PREFER kishore OVER the GREAT mohd. rafi.

knowing that MOHD. RAFI sahaab was the GREATEST i stilll spoke my mind & IT COST ME A LOT OF PEOPLE! ""




Blasphemy!!! Blasphemy!!!
Basharat Sahab, Aap Ke Sar FATWA jari Hai, U are Hereby ordered to be STONED Till u revert back To your Roots, (well then again ur probably stoned half of the time anyway .)


On a serious note, i respect your views, as mausiqi ka koi mazhab nahin hai. doesnt matter if it cost u a lot people, i feel uve probably gained more than what uve lost because of your truthfulness.

Rafi Sahab Ne Farmaya tha ( note the emphasis is on "RAFI SAHAB" and not KISHORE SAHAB )

"Raah Sachai ki mushkilon se bhari, par na sahas ruka aur na himmat dari
yoon hi tap kar sabhi paap jal jayenge, pehle kaante to chun, phool mil jayenge"

hey dharmaan,

to be totally honest dharmann i KNEW ud be one of those friends who wud UNDERSTAND &RESPECT my honesty!

note:

i admit RAFI was incredible & i love him to bits along with mukesh, asha & lata but...

its a personal more NOSTALGIC link i have with KISHOREDA mainly cos of BACHCHAN sahaab.

P.S.

bachchan IS ALSO not A MUSLIM BUT STILL U WONT MANY bigger FANS OF HIS.

DHARMAAN THNX FOR UR support DOST.

like i always say yaar....UR A topman!


take care.

BASH.