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tracknest
As I expected, a thumping win by the Indian side. Keep it up guys. On a good batting wicket, Irfan and Harbhajan bowled beautifully.

Good to see Sewag playing to his potential. I love the balanace of this Indian team and credit must go to Chappel and Dravid.

Well done boys and keep making us proud.
Anil4
It was a low scoring match, but Team India played well, and won by a huge margin with 14 overs to spare. That stopped South Africa's winning streak of 20 consecutive matches.

Track, do you think Sachin should play lower down the order?

Anil
tracknest
QUOTE(Bhirgu @ Nov 20 2005, 09:39 AM) *

It was a low scoring match, but Team India played well, and won by a huge margin with 14 overs to spare. That stopped South Africa's winning streak of 20 consecutive matches.

Track, do you think Sachin should play lower down the order?

Anil


Good question Anil bhai. I am seeing Sachin play since he was 14 and I strongly feel that he has to open the innings. Thats the best place for him.

Ok he has had a few failures lately but he has being out from cricket for some time. He will fire and when he fires it will be a feast. Wait and watch.

T
princeali
Great batting performance by Smith and a good win for SA, all credit to them for restricting the Indian's to 188 on a good batting wicket.....Pollock's opening spell was a treat....off to Mumbai for the final one-dayer....hope its a good match !.
tracknest
Yes it was a comprehensive win by the SA. I like the recent exrementations by Chappell but I thought sending Gambhir and Pathan to open on a swinging wicket was asking too much.

Chappell must realise that all indian wickets are nor similar and also the crowd. There is always an extra pressure at Eden Gardens and specially now when the crowds were concerned more about Ganguly than the Indian team.

The Bombay crowd are not like that and they will be 100% behind the team. I am confident that the Indian team will come back very strongly.

Go boys Go...
princeali
Why was Pathan sent in to open in such a crucial match, even the idea of thinking he could give them quick runs was wrong, it should have been the regular combo of Shewag and Tendulkar or even Gambhir/Shewag, a left-right opening pair. Pathan is good down the order where he can score quick runs and that is where he should stay, he shouldn't even come at # 3, he needs to improve his technique if he wants to bat higher up the order, and this idea of him coming up the order should only be restricted to pitches in India because outside of India its a another story. I like Shewag better up the order, he's not a middle-order batsman who can stabilize the innings, that's just not how he plays, but I guess the Indians wanted to try something new.
vivekpm
QUOTE(princeali @ Nov 28 2005, 12:32 AM) *
Why was Pathan sent in to open in such a crucial match, even the idea of thinking he could give them quick runs was wrong, it should have been the regular combo of Shewag and Tendulkar or even Gambhir/Shewag, a left-right opening pair. Pathan is good down the order where he can score quick runs and that is where he should stay, he shouldn't even come at # 3, he needs to improve his technique if he wants to bat higher up the order, and this idea of him coming up the order should only be restricted to pitches in India because outside of India its a another story. I like Shewag better up the order, he's not a middle-order batsman who can stabilize the innings, that's just not how he plays, but I guess the Indians wanted to try something new.


I agree on Pathan not opening the innings. However, I think there was nothing wrong with Sehwag coming at no. 4. This Indian batting line-up is quite flexible. Sachin/Sehwag/Gambhir can take turns at no. 4. So next thing that I would love to see is Gambhir coming down the order and playing a big knock (He has been there once/twice but not successful). At #3, Dhoni is a good bet. Or if stability is required, Kaif/Dravid can come in there. Pathan should not be used too much at #3. Instead Dhoni should be given more exposure at that position, specially against tougher oppositions like SA.

Cheers,
Anil4
I dont know what role, if any, the pitch and the toss played in this big defeat for the Indian side. I do agree with the views expressed by Ali and Vivek about Pathan opening the innings as an over the top experiment.

I hope the body that controls cricket in India took note of the disgusting behaviour by the crowd in jeering their team and cheering all the boundaries scored by the South Africans. The only appropriate response to this is not to have any international matches in Eden Gardens for the next two years !!!!!!

Anil
princeali
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Nov 27 2005, 02:18 PM) *

QUOTE(princeali @ Nov 28 2005, 12:32 AM) *
Why was Pathan sent in to open in such a crucial match, even the idea of thinking he could give them quick runs was wrong, it should have been the regular combo of Shewag and Tendulkar or even Gambhir/Shewag, a left-right opening pair. Pathan is good down the order where he can score quick runs and that is where he should stay, he shouldn't even come at # 3, he needs to improve his technique if he wants to bat higher up the order, and this idea of him coming up the order should only be restricted to pitches in India because outside of India its a another story. I like Shewag better up the order, he's not a middle-order batsman who can stabilize the innings, that's just not how he plays, but I guess the Indians wanted to try something new.


I agree on Pathan not opening the innings. However, I think there was nothing wrong with Sehwag coming at no. 4. This Indian batting line-up is quite flexible. Sachin/Sehwag/Gambhir can take turns at no. 4. So next thing that I would love to see is Gambhir coming down the order and playing a big knock (He has been there once/twice but not successful). At #3, Dhoni is a good bet. Or if stability is required, Kaif/Dravid can come in there. Pathan should not be used too much at #3. Instead Dhoni should be given more exposure at that position, specially against tougher oppositions like SA.

Cheers,


True, at times Shewag can come down the order but he isn't a stable batsman, he'll always keep on trying to hit the ball, at # 4 you need someone to stay at the crease.....experiments are always good though....yeah Dhoni up the order would be interesting.
princeali
QUOTE(Bhirgu @ Nov 27 2005, 03:11 PM) *

I dont know what role, if any, the pitch and the toss played in this big defeat for the Indian side. I do agree with the views expressed by Ali and Vivek about Pathan opening the innings as an over the top experiment.

I hope the body that controls cricket in India took note of the disgusting behaviour by the crowd in jeering their team and cheering all the boundaries scored by the South Africans. The only appropriate response to this is not to have any international matches in Eden Gardens for the next two years !!!!!!

Anil


Remember the WC96 match against SL where they stopped the match and also the ATC Test vs Pakistan when Sachin was run-out, and when Pakistan was about to win they stopped the match and everyone had to leave for the match to finish, totally crazy......the atmosphere is amazing in Eden Gardens but the crowd needs to be put under check.
princeali
On another note, I liked the Ganguly-Tendulkar opening pair, they were very good together until it had to be broken up. Similarly the Sohail-Anwar combination which worked wonders for Pakistan had to be broken up with the introduction of Afridi.
vivekpm
QUOTE(Bhirgu @ Nov 28 2005, 01:41 AM) *
I dont know what role, if any, the pitch and the toss played in this big defeat for the Indian side. I do agree with the views expressed by Ali and Vivek about Pathan opening the innings as an over the top experiment.

I hope the body that controls cricket in India took note of the disgusting behaviour by the crowd in jeering their team and cheering all the boundaries scored by the South Africans. The only appropriate response to this is not to have any international matches in Eden Gardens for the next two years !!!!!!

Anil


Less said the better about the crowd behavior. Cannot imagine our own countrymen booing our team. Watching India play at Eden Gardens will never be the same. Sad part is how people forgot great victories that our team has achieved at Eden Gardens in past. Dravid, one of the main reasons why India were able to beat Australia after following on in a test at Eden Gardens, was ill-treated to put it mildly. His dismissal was applauded. Dravid deserves much better respect than just being stand-by captain. Thankfully he is a mature cricketer.

Cheers,
vivekpm
QUOTE(princeali @ Nov 28 2005, 03:40 AM) *
On another note, I liked the Ganguly-Tendulkar opening pair, they were very good together until it had to be broken up. Similarly the Sohail-Anwar combination which worked wonders for Pakistan had to be broken up with the introduction of Afridi.


Agreed. I guess selectors erred in picking him for test team. He could have been picked for ODIs instead. But again it would have been difficult to make either Gambhir/Yuvraj/Kaif to sit out to accomodate him.

Cheers,
gin_ger_ale
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Nov 28 2005, 10:53 AM) *

Less said the better about the crowd behavior. Cannot imagine our own countrymen booing our team. Watching India play at Eden Gardens will never be the same. Sad part is how people forgot great victories that our team has achieved at Eden Gardens in past. Dravid, one of the main reasons why India were able to beat Australia after following on in a test at Eden Gardens, was ill-treated to put it mildly. His dismissal was applauded. Dravid deserves much better respect than just being stand-by captain. Thankfully he is a mature cricketer.

Cheers,


I agree. I watched the the Indian batting and was so disappointed to see the crowd cheering when Dravid fell. I thought it was probably Dhoni coming out to bat. But it was not that!! Hope Eden Gardens isn't given any game for the next six months. It is also sad that one of the best stadiums in India does not deserve a match!

Loved Rahul's reaction to the whole issue. Wish Saurav had behaved more mature than he has.

Ginger
rom
Very sad indeed. sad1.gif
Really disgraceful behaviour by a large number of 'fans' in Kolkata.
As Princeali pointed out, too many disgraceful scenes have been created by crowds at the Eden Gardens... disruption of matches, insult to players.
Yes, Eden Gardens doesn't deserve to hold a match, only because boorish crowds haven't been checked... cry.gif
gkshyam
I agree on your take about the Fans' reactions at Kolkata...... but I feel Greg Chappel's reaction towards them was far more worse..... I don't need to tell the details..... as the whole nation knows the so called 'reaction' pretty well by now..... tongue.gif doh.gif Too bad, & shameful on his part....... angry.gif

Now, for the positive part of the post... biggrin.gif CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! India have just now won today's match at the Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai, and jointly won the series along with South Africa (2-2). Was a really amazing performance..... bow.gif Aaj ka match toh Paisa Wasool!!!!! tongue.gif poseur.gif jump.gif rotate1.gif rotate2.gif

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! smile1.gif
gkshyam
And just to add....... THE CROWD WAS SIMPLY AMAAAAAZIIIIIINGGGGGG!!!!!! thumbs-up.gif bow.gif bow.gif clap1.gif clap2.gif Full Kudos To Aamchi Mumbai!!! smile1.gif
princeali
Great win by India, and a great bowling performance by them to restrict SA to 221. Batting second was easier on that pitch because in the afternoon it was slow, but credit to the bowlers for keeping things in check.

Rahul Dravid played another fantastic knock, he's always been in my mind India's most valuable batsman, a match-winner, and importantly the backbone of the batting lineup and he showed it again today, three cheers to the captain !.

Shewag was unlucky to get out as he was gearing up for a big knock, the ball was not going to hit the stumps and it was going down leg side. Tendulkar started well, was in good knick, but lost out to a very good catch. But it was nice to see him play his shots and get some form back and Yuvraj played well for his 49 too.

Overall it was a great series with both teams playing good and competitive cricket smile1.gif.
gin_ger_ale
QUOTE(princeali @ Nov 29 2005, 12:10 AM) *

Great win by India, and a great bowling performance by them to restrict SA to 221. Batting second was easier on that pitch because in the afternoon it was slow, but credit to the bowlers for keeping things in check.

Rahul Dravid played another fantastic knock, he's always been in my mind India's most valuable batsman, a match-winner, and importantly the backbone of the batting lineup and he showed it again today, three cheers to the captain !.

Shewag was unlucky to get out as he was gearing up for a big knock, the ball was not going to hit the stumps and it was going down leg side. Tendulkar started well, was in good knick, but lost out to a very good catch. But it was nice to see him play his shots and get some form back and Yuvraj played well for his 49 too.

Overall it was a great series with both teams playing good and competitive cricket smile1.gif.


Good review, Princeali ji. Yeah, it was more thrilling than the one sided Sri Lanka series! Rahul's thanked the crowd so sweetly wub.gif
tracknest
Well done Team India for bouncing back and levelling the series. The boys have done well and performed well.

There are still many areas of improvement. I believe Gambhir is strictly OK and Kaif must be given more opportunity.

Pathan has done well as always and so has Harbajan but still a lot of work has to be done on RP Singh and Kartik.

It was a fair result in the end and it clearly demonstrates that we did not miss Ganguly and hopefully thats always the case and well done my Bombay crowd, hopefully the Calcutta crowd can learn an element of decency and patriotism from us.
tracknest
Excellent win by the Indian team. Never allowed SL to come back in the match. Irfan Pathan, another legend in the making and great to see Sachin dominating.

Kumble, easliy the most underrated bowler in the world shoed his esamplry class again. A close look at his records suggest that he is probably the the most conistent leg spinner in the world. His record in good against all teams and specially agaisnt teams that play spin well.

Nice to see Yuvraj and Dhoni play their natural game and play for their team. The only way both can succedd in test matches is to play thier natural game like Sewag.

Laxman needs to get this message too, it was embarssing to see him play in the second innings. The game of cricket has changed and only positive attitude will work.

It seems its curtains for Ganguly. I feel for him as the selectors have confused everyone. First by selcting him and then by dropping hin just when he looked like getting back amongst runs.

Nice to see Wasim Jafer being rewarded for his consistent perfomance at the domestic level. Gambhir is lucky to play, I dont regard him test class. I would have preffered if they groomed Kaif to open the batting and still keep Ganguly in the middle order.
gin_ger_ale
QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 15 2005, 03:56 AM) *

Kumble, easliy the most underrated bowler in the world shoed his esamplry class again. A close look at his records suggest that he is probably the the most conistent leg spinner in the world. His record in good against all teams and specially agaisnt teams that play spin well.



I feel the same too angry.gif Atleast, now I hope credit is given where it is due. Never seen that guy complain for not being selected. He worked his way back when he was out of form cool.gif

Also, great team effort. The team rocks now! Poor Ganguly, though sad.gif He has to go, it is logical. But I wish he was given more respect. Whatever the reason, he atleast is not in the way of youngsters unlike Kapil Dev!

Irfan Pathan seems like a level headed guy too. smile.gif
ashgupta3
QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 15 2005, 03:56 AM) *

Nice to see Yuvraj and Dhoni play their natural game and play for their team. The only way both can succedd in test matches is to play thier natural game like Sewag.

Laxman needs to get this message too, it was embarssing to see him play in the second innings. The game of cricket has changed and only positive attitude will work.

It seems its curtains for Ganguly. I feel for him as the selectors have confused everyone. First by selcting him and then by dropping hin just when he looked like getting back amongst runs.

Nice to see Wasim Jafer being rewarded for his consistent perfomance at the domestic level. Gambhir is lucky to play, I dont regard him test class. I would have preffered if they groomed Kaif to open the batting and still keep Ganguly in the middle order.


It is so nice to see a cricket thread on this forum. I have a few things to say. First of all I dont think that positive attitude is the only solution in tests. Laxman is the type of batsman who sometime is not very confident and needs time to settle. U can not expect a player to play positive even before settling in, whats the rush in any case? and not everyone can be Sehwag.

Im not sure if its really curtains for Ganguly (however much I would like to see that happen). Indian opening problem is still there, so they had to pick one of the openers and Yuvraj is in very good form, so Ganguly was the only logical choice to be dropped and there is no use in keeping him in the dressing room just sulking and demoralizing the whole team.

I dont think Kaif should be given chance to open the batting, he has one of the worst first class stats for a test batsman, how would u expect him to click in test cricket?

tracknest
QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Dec 15 2005, 06:53 AM) *

QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 15 2005, 03:56 AM) *

Nice to see Yuvraj and Dhoni play their natural game and play for their team. The only way both can succedd in test matches is to play thier natural game like Sewag.

Laxman needs to get this message too, it was embarssing to see him play in the second innings. The game of cricket has changed and only positive attitude will work.

It seems its curtains for Ganguly. I feel for him as the selectors have confused everyone. First by selcting him and then by dropping hin just when he looked like getting back amongst runs.

Nice to see Wasim Jafer being rewarded for his consistent perfomance at the domestic level. Gambhir is lucky to play, I dont regard him test class. I would have preffered if they groomed Kaif to open the batting and still keep Ganguly in the middle order.


It is so nice to see a cricket thread on this forum. I have a few things to say. First of all I dont think that positive attitude is the only solution in tests. Laxman is the type of batsman who sometime is not very confident and needs time to settle. U can not expect a player to play positive even before settling in, whats the rush in any case? and not everyone can be Sehwag.

Im not sure if its really curtains for Ganguly (however much I would like to see that happen). Indian opening problem is still there, so they had to pick one of the openers and Yuvraj is in very good form, so Ganguly was the only logical choice to be dropped and there is no use in keeping him in the dressing room just sulking and demoralizing the whole team.

I dont think Kaif should be given chance to open the batting, he has one of the worst first class stats for a test batsman, how would u expect him to click in test cricket?


When I said a positive attitude, I meant playing one's natural game. I dont expect everyone to be Sewag but it is embarrassing when a bowler like Irfan is playing with authority and a top player like Laxman struggling. He tried to dig in but dug for too long and got out. Cricket is more about class than stats specially when someone has played as less as Kaif. He is in and out of the team sometimes for no reason at all. He has class.
I agree with you about not including Ganguly, his attitude is not right for the team. He has only himself to blame for his current condition.
ashgupta3
India is in very strong position at the end of 2nd day of 3rd test against SL. Harbhajan finally got back his ODI touch with impressive bowling figure. Pathan is fast qualifying as a genuine all rounder. Dhoni again showed that he got a sensible head in addition to his hitting capabilities. Laxman’s continuous good form will be a big asset for Pak tour. He wasn’t very successful in last Pak tour, but I can bet this time it will be different.

From the beginning of this season Sehwag has continuously got out in 20s 30s and 40s, wonder if the marriage has something to do with this tongue.gif Kaif is hardly qualified to even be included in Ranji team given his poor FC record (I always thought that Ganguly kept him in the reserve so that he can be used whenever any of the regular middle order batsman is not available, and given his record it is very unlikely that Kaif would ever be a threat to MO, that means being the weakest link in the MO it would directly benefit the ex-captain). Yuvraj has yet to prove that he can sustain his good form for an extended period of time, not to speak of his weakness against spinners.

I feel it was unfair to include Jaffer in the team but not select in the final eleven. By not including him in the team, it is guarantted that he will be going on Pak tour, because he can not be just dropped without being given chance. But if Gambhir fails in the second inning too, it also means that Jaffer in all probability would be playing in the first test against Pak. So now after being out of the team for 3 years, he would be facing one of the toughest pace attack on fast wickets Pak is preparing for the tour. It would have been fair to give him a chance in relatively easier circumstance and let him build some confidence, considering how much pressure he would be.
vivekpm
QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Dec 20 2005, 04:10 AM) *
India is in very strong position at the end of 2nd day of 3rd test against SL. Harbhajan finally got back his ODI touch with impressive bowling figure. Pathan is fast qualifying as a genuine all rounder. Dhoni again showed that he got a sensible head in addition to his hitting capabilities. Laxman’s continuous good form will be a big asset for Pak tour. He wasn’t very successful in last Pak tour, but I can bet this time it will be different.

From the beginning of this season Sehwag has continuously got out in 20s 30s and 40s, wonder if the marriage has something to do with this tongue.gif Kaif is hardly qualified to even be included in Ranji team given his poor FC record (I always thought that Ganguly kept him in the reserve so that he can be used whenever any of the regular middle order batsman is not available, and given his record it is very unlikely that Kaif would ever be a threat to MO, that means being the weakest link in the MO it would directly benefit the ex-captain). Yuvraj has yet to prove that he can sustain his good form for an extended period of time, not to speak of his weakness against spinners.

I feel it was unfair to include Jaffer in the team but not select in the final eleven. By not including him in the team, it is guarantted that he will be going on Pak tour, because he can not be just dropped without being given chance. But if Gambhir fails in the second inning too, it also means that Jaffer in all probability would be playing in the first test against Pak. So now after being out of the team for 3 years, he would be facing one of the toughest pace attack on fast wickets Pak is preparing for the tour. It would have been fair to give him a chance in relatively easier circumstance and let him build some confidence, considering how much pressure he would be.


Jaffer is a good batsman and has played well for Mumbai. Unfortunately he could not make much of the opportunity he got last time. Though he played some good knocks against WI in WI. Hopefully he will get his opportunity against Pak.

Despite his failures, I still feel Kaif is long-term prospect for India and that it is just a matter of time before he cements his place. Dhoni and Pathan's batting has been major plus for India. Though it is still early to call Pathan as all-rounder, I hope Dhoni will come good against Pakistan. Pathan's batting, at this stage, is just bonus for India and we should not bank much on it.

Cheers,
ashgupta3
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Dec 20 2005, 02:20 PM) *

Despite his failures, I still feel Kaif is long-term prospect for India and that it is just a matter of time before he cements his place. Dhoni and Pathan's batting has been major plus for India. Though it is still early to call Pathan as all-rounder, I hope Dhoni will come good against Pakistan. Pathan's batting, at this stage, is just bonus for India and we should not bank much on it.

Cheers,

Some information for u, just in case u r not aware of. Kaif has been playing first class cricket for the last 8 years. In the 67 matches that he has played so far, he scored 5 centuries, with highest score of 136 and a pathetic average of 37. I think other than BD and Zim teams, you wont find any other test batsmen with such poor record. Even most all rounders have better batting averages. So on what basis u think he is going to succeed in test?

If he has so much potential y cant he first prove it in FC matches? I can understand a logic that a domestic player who scores heavily in FC matches, may not succeed in international cricket coz of lack in technique. But how can a player with such a poor domestic record will ever succeed in tests? Is it just ur gut feeling or there is any logic to it? The ppl who make such opinions only go by the hype created by media.

This is just setting a bad example that a player can get selected based merely on hype and the so called "potential" w/o any need to back it up with concrete performances. I will be disappointed if either of Kaif or Ganguly is selected for the Pak tour. Ganguly coz he is just going to demoralize the team with his presence. Whatever good he has done in past as past, now he comes with lots of baggage. He deserve to be given a decent retirement, like any other senior player. But if he decide to hang on, he will be risking whatever reputation he has left. If he still has in him, he can prove it by scoring runs in first class matches. This is how any respectable cricketer would do rather than putting pressure thorough other means. He should learn from players like Mohinder Amarnath on how to make come back in the team with ur performance (even Laxman has done it more than once).

tracknest
Attitude, Attitude and Attitude. Thats what we are seeing in this current Indian team. All players seem to be switched on and it is heartening to see them play with such pride and determination.

Very hapy to see Harbajan perform. He is a class act and easily the best offspinner in the world and he displayed that with some amazing stuff.

SL have a job on their hands may be they want to take some inspiration from Rudolph who in my opinion played the greatest test inning of this decade. He is a player to watch. Another chink in the aromour of the aussies.

Kaif failed but the kid has talent and a poistive attitude and 37 is not a pathetic average by any standards. Lets not jump to conclusions so soon, wait for a few years and then comment.

And well done Yuvi....he is under pressure whenever he plays Test cricket as a few naive ex cricketers and critics beeiliev he is not suitable for test matches. Yuvi has proved again that he has what it takes to perform in both forms of the game.

Well done guys....keep going. Aussies we are comming....
ashgupta3
I agree attitude is making a big difference to the team. But Track I strongly disagree with ur views on Kaif. How can u say 37 is not a pathetic average. Im not talking abt test avg, its FC avg, and that too on indian batting pitches and that too after playing 8 seasons. His highest score in 67 matches is 136, how would u expect him to score big in test matches? How many yrs going to be enough before we know he is not worth it? Is it fair to the other players who consistently perform in domestic matches but dont have the hype to support them and eventually they disappear w/o getting even a single chance, coz we end up giving those chances to players who comes with so much "talent" that we dont even want to wait for that talent to be first proved, and then eventually find out that talent is good for nothing.
princeali
Ganguly is still more talented than many of the current Indian batsman, which has been proved recently, but he should not have been treated the way he is.

I don't like the idea of re-calling Wasim Jaffer and the not playing him, he should have been played instead of Gambhir in this test.

The Aussies are still a strong team, other teams have a way to go to reach their standards of playing well in different conditions. Yes, they can be beaten but to match them you have to consistently play well. England beat them in the Ashes but lost to Pakistan, England are a good team but putting them in Australia's bracket as many critics have done just because they won a series is going overboard.

I like SA's team not only in Tests but in ODI's as well, they're going to be a team to watch out for when the WC arrives.

The India-Pak series is coming up soon and that's going to be a cracker.
vivekpm
QUOTE(princeali @ Dec 21 2005, 05:39 AM) *
Ganguly is still more talented than many of the current Indian batsman, which has been proved recently, but he should not have been treated the way he is.

I don't like the idea of re-calling Wasim Jaffer and the not playing him, he should have been played instead of Gambhir in this test.



Given that Gambhir failed again, Jaffer will get a look-in in first test against Pak. And given all the hype and controversy created around his dropping, Ganguly might get into the squad for Pak. Though I still believe that he should be in the team only for ODIs.


QUOTE(ashgupta3)
Some information for u, just in case u r not aware of. Kaif has been playing first class cricket for the last 8 years. In the 67 matches that he has played so far, he scored 5 centuries, with highest score of 136 and a pathetic average of 37. I think other than BD and Zim teams, you wont find any other test batsmen with such poor record. Even most all rounders have better batting averages. So on what basis u think he is going to succeed in test?


I agree that with you here that average of 37 is not something to show for a batsman. I never said he should be sustained for Pak. My feeling is that, sooner or later he will make a comeback.

Apart from all the names discussed here, does anyone remember a player called Badani? He deserves a chance too IMHO.

Cheers,
ashgupta3
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Dec 21 2005, 11:09 AM) *

Given that Gambhir failed again, Jaffer will get a look-in in first test against Pak. And given all the hype and controversy created around his dropping, Ganguly might get into the squad for Pak. Though I still believe that he should be in the team only for ODIs.

I totally agree with u here.

QUOTE(vivekpm @ Dec 21 2005, 11:09 AM) *

I agree that with you here that average of 37 is not something to show for a batsman. I never said he should be sustained for Pak. My feeling is that, sooner or later he will make a comeback.

Apart from all the names discussed here, does anyone remember a player called Badani? He deserves a chance too IMHO.

Cheers,

Yes I also think that he will make comeback, but he wont be able to sustain coz he lacks the consistency and the hunger to make runs. Yeah I remember Badani, but he too has problem with consistency. He fails more often than he scores runs. I do not understand this, a batsman who scores runs in FC matches once in a while, how can u expect him to succeed in test cricket? He might just play good knocks here n there, but he cant be a regular. This is the difference between Dravid and Ganguly. Both of them had a very decent start to their test careers, but while Dravid’s avg just kept on rising, Ganguly’s went the other way. Look at their FC careers and u will know the reason y that happened.

Btw I was reading a thread on “Riddles” and I must say u have some AMAZING skills in solving them.
tracknest
Yuvraj too has an aveage of about 37 and so does Gambhir. Hence I cant see a problem with Kaif who is not only a good fielder but also has a good cricketing brain.

Yuvraj surely has the class but I doubt about Gambhir. The main issue with players not being consistent is that they dont have the class to perform consistently. Jaffer has scored many runs in domestic cricket but he fails whenever he plays at the international level. Most Indian players in the past and present suffer from this problem.

Ashok Mankad was a king in domestic cricket but a failure at international level. Other players that come in mind include Surinder Amarnath, Ashok Malhotra, Brijesh Patel, Anshuman Gaikwad, Akash Chopra, Bhaskar Pillay, Badani, Dinseh Mongia and many more.

We need top sought out our opening pair as soon as possible. I also belive Sewag is a poor choice for leading India in the future, IMO his captiancy in this test is being childish. Hopefully Rahul can hang on the job as much as possible.

I doubt Ganguly can make any comeback unless a few players fall ill. There is no room for him in both forms ofthe game. I do agree with that he was a player of class but I doubt if there is any gas left in the cylinders. He is very sentimental and lacks motivation, all characteristics of a player that is not required in the dressing room.
vishwa88
QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 21 2005, 05:16 PM) *

I doubt Ganguly can make any comeback unless a few players fall ill. There is no room for him in both forms ofthe game. I do agree with that he was a player of class but I doubt if there is any gas left in the cylinders. He is very sentimental and lacks motivation, all characteristics of a player that is not required in the dressing room.


I agree Ganguly was a class player, he still is one, with an exception on the legside. Right from the day he was seen being uncomfortable on the leg side his run scoring chocked and he did work hard to improve in that area, but with less success. Even now when he hooks or pulls on the leg side, he moves with his whole body rather than freeing his arms a lil bit. All said, experience is what that counts for match temperament and he has enough, which he showed at Kotla. Do not forget that he made his entry into test cricket with a couple flamboyant hundreds.

I wudnt say he is a bad choice for tests, but not for the one-dayers. He is not a fast mover in the field and not a great fielder either that has just sealed his entry into the shorter version.

Considering his achievements and his service to Indian Cricket i am personally sad at the way he has been handled. Atleast the selectors should have given a reason for his exclusion, but they jus said "It was an unanimous decision" to remove him. I think no one in the selection panel likes him.
vivekpm
QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Dec 22 2005, 12:50 AM) *

Yes I also think that he will make comeback, but he wont be able to sustain coz he lacks the consistency and the hunger to make runs. Yeah I remember Badani, but he too has problem with consistency. He fails more often than he scores runs. I do not understand this, a batsman who scores runs in FC matches once in a while, how can u expect him to succeed in test cricket? He might just play good knocks here n there, but he cant be a regular. This is the difference between Dravid and Ganguly. Both of them had a very decent start to their test careers, but while Dravid’s avg just kept on rising, Ganguly’s went the other way. Look at their FC careers and u will know the reason y that happened.

Btw I was reading a thread on “Riddles” and I must say u have some AMAZING skills in solving them.


Thanks for the compliment smile1.gif

While Kaif cannot be sustained as of now, I think Badani has fair enough record in FC cricket and he has played only 3-4 test matches. But Pak series won't be ideal to try him out. And looking at all these options I am getting more and more convinced that Ganguly will come in the squad even though he has not got that great a test record. He will have to wait though for someone's injury to get into playing XI unless ofcourse India choose to go in with a make-shift opener (which will be a very bad idea against rejuvenated Pak team).

Currently listening to the songs you are playing. Good playlist I must say.

Cheers,
ashgupta3
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Dec 22 2005, 11:44 AM) *

Thanks for the compliment smile1.gif

While Kaif cannot be sustained as of now, I think Badani has fair enough record in FC cricket and he has played only 3-4 test matches. But Pak series won't be ideal to try him out. And looking at all these options I am getting more and more convinced that Ganguly will come in the squad even though he has not got that great a test record. He will have to wait though for someone's injury to get into playing XI unless ofcourse India choose to go in with a make-shift opener (which will be a very bad idea against rejuvenated Pak team).

Currently listening to the songs you are playing. Good playlist I must say.

Cheers,

Thanx for the compliment, it was the farmaishes of my listeners that made me look so good smile1.gif I think Ganguly will be back soon, but more important will be how he makes the comeback. Will he take a backdoor entry or enter via good performances. I doubt the second option, coz he is not known for hard work and committment to the game (at least not in last few years). All the problems that he is currently facing, would not have come had he been a little less arrogant and more hard working.

ashgupta3
QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 22 2005, 04:46 AM) *

Yuvraj too has an aveage of about 37 and so does Gambhir. Hence I cant see a problem with Kaif who is not only a good fielder but also has a good cricketing brain.
sing room.

Here r some FC stats

Kaif - 67 matches, 5 centuries, 136 highest, 37.00 average
Yuvraj - 59 matches, 13 centuries, 209 highest, 46.19 avg
Gambhir - 76 matches, 19 centuries, 233* highest, 52.75 avg

Track in my opinion all this good impression abt Kaif is just based on hype created by media and Ganguly who promoted him just to keep his own place safe in the test team. I dont doubt Kaif has a strong work ethics, but if u dont have that hunger to score runs, u cant succeed at any level. I agree he has done very well in ODI this season, but I doubt he can keep this performance for much longer.
gkshyam
QUOTE
Vivek: Apart from all the names discussed here, does anyone remember a player called Badani? He deserves a chance too IMHO.


Yes, I remember very much. And I also remember another player named Dinesh Mongia....... who keeps on playing big innings in domestic as well as county cricket....and keeps on piling up wickets with his left arm spin too...... match after match......... Wonder how no body remembers him..... leave alone consider..... mellow.gif huh.gif

PS: For the statistically inclined, he made a 175 just yesterday in the Ranji match for Punjab biggrin.gif
tracknest
QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Dec 22 2005, 10:03 PM) *

QUOTE(tracknest @ Dec 22 2005, 04:46 AM) *

Yuvraj too has an aveage of about 37 and so does Gambhir. Hence I cant see a problem with Kaif who is not only a good fielder but also has a good cricketing brain.
sing room.

Here r some FC stats

Kaif - 67 matches, 5 centuries, 136 highest, 37.00 average
Yuvraj - 59 matches, 13 centuries, 209 highest, 46.19 avg
Gambhir - 76 matches, 19 centuries, 233* highest, 52.75 avg

Track in my opinion all this good impression abt Kaif is just based on hype created by media and Ganguly who promoted him just to keep his own place safe in the test team. I dont doubt Kaif has a strong work ethics, but if u dont have that hunger to score runs, u cant succeed at any level. I agree he has done very well in ODI this season, but I doubt he can keep this performance for much longer.


I was talking about Test Match cricket only. I dont think he was promoted in any way. He is a self made man.
Even Yuvraj was crticised for being included in test cricket but it seems he is proving his critics wrong. FC aveages are anyway misleading.
ashgupta3
QUOTE(gkshyam @ Dec 23 2005, 02:49 AM) *

Yes, I remember very much. And I also remember another player named Dinesh Mongia....... who keeps on playing big innings in domestic as well as county cricket....and keeps on piling up wickets with his left arm spin too...... match after match......... Wonder how no body remembers him..... leave alone consider..... mellow.gif huh.gif

PS: For the statistically inclined, he made a 175 just yesterday in the Ranji match for Punjab biggrin.gif

Mongia was out of form most of this season, if he gets back in his form now, he has the potential to get into the team for series against England.
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