Hi Rafians!

I am starting a new thread by the name of "THE COME BACK OF GREAT RAFI". This would include songs
of Rafi sahib from 1977 to onwards.

I would request you all to contibute to this thread so that we can share the last memorable songs sung
by this great singer, which are very rare to find elsewhere. I wish he could have lived few years more with his magic voice but alas he departed at the time when he was re-emerging with his massive hits in films like Amar akbar Anthony,Hum Kisi se Kum nahin, Suhaag, Sargam,naseeb etc.

May his soul rest in peace and he resides in heaven.


Looking forward for some one to post the first song for this thread.

Ameen

The title is offensive, please change it.

would you like to explain please.

A "comeback" logically requires a 'departure'; now that 2 me is most offensive.

Well, here's something that we can do with.... before we get too emotional with the title of this topic :

come·back /ˈkʌmˌbæk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhm-bak] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a return to a former higher rank, popularity, position, prosperity, etc.: The ex-champion kept trying to make a comeback.
2. a clever or effective retort; rejoinder; riposte: That was a great comeback the comedian made to the hecklers.
3. Informal. a basis or cause of complaint: If you insist on buying these pointed shoes, you'll have no comeback when your toes start to hurt.
[Origin: 1815–25; n. use of v. phrase come back]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
come·back (kŭm'bāk') Pronunciation Key
n.

1.
1. A return to formerly enjoyed status or prosperity: The film star made an unexpected comeback.
2. A return to popularity: Wide ties are making a comeback this year.
2. The act of making up a deficit, as in a contest or game.
3. A reply, especially a quick witty one; a retort.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Surely, we all agree with the fact that Rafi Sahab did lose some of his popularity to Kishore Da during the 70s, and it took almost a couple of years for him to regain the position that he enjoyed earlier. Right? I think so. Now, if you all agree with what I have just mentioned then you would also agree that regaining the position can be termed as a "Comeback"(nothing negative or demeaning about it and plus the definitions also state that) and that a "departure" is not necessarily the best way (or word for that matter) to describe a temporary loss of a certain position. Therefore, why this strong reaction towards the the word 'COMEBACK' when it doesn't denote anything negative about Rafi Sahab in this context?

Well, I simply feel that RAZIA ji is merely pointing towards this 'COMEBACK' that Rafi Sahab made after the slight phase when Kishore Da had become the most popular singer. I also believe that the title was selected with good and honest intent, and therefore why the title should be considered as OFFENSIVE is beyond me.

I am afraid we do not.

That's why!

I guess, next you would say that 'ARADHANA' never happened! I am sorry, but that would not change anything.

Mam, it's just the reality and there's nothing wrong in accepting that, and more over you got to give credit where it's due! I think it was Rafi Sahab's greatness that he made such a grand 'COMEBACK', which saw him win the National Award for KYA HUA TERA WAADA and give some great songs even when Kishore Kumar was giving one great hit after another.

I thought the whole 'COMEBACK' thing added to Rafi Sahab's greatness and made his journey as a singer - LEGENDARY and inspirational.

If that's the way you feel, there's nothing more I would like 2 add 2 this conversation.

Friends.Don't waste your time by arguing. Enjoy the maza provided by two greats.

Song:Mera dildaar ka

Singers:Mohd Rafi,Kishore Kumar

Film:Deedar-E-Yaar(1982)

Music:LP

Lyrics:Sahir

Duration:7.07

Bitrate:128 kbps


Click to view attachment

Thank you very much for that!

Here's one from my side, a beautiful sparkling solo by Rafi Sahab for the Late Vinod Mehra. I also love the way this song has been picturised:

Song - KAISE JEET LETE HAIN LOG DIL KISI KA
Film - SAAJAN BINA SUHAGAN
Year - 1978
Music - USHA KHANNA
Lyrics - INDEEVAR
Duration - 4.01
Format - MP3
Bitrate - 192 Kbps

Click to view attachment

That is a fact that Rafi sahab lost his unique and supreme position which he gained in 60s......and this is also a fact that nobody ever, whether before him or after him, achieved that sort of monopoly (used this word in a positive sense) in popularity. Kishore did manage to leave Rafi sahab behind a bit in early seventies but then Rafi came roaring back, because he had to, due to his unsurpassable natural talent. Rafi had to rule, because he was born to rule.....Looking at the stature of Rafi sahab as a star in 60s, we have to believe that no body ever rose to that level, not even Rafi sahab after his comeback.

(All this IMHO)

Great thread !

I just wish SD Burman was around during this time, he could have created more gems with, as he liked to call it, his 'first serve'. Imagine SD-Rafi in the late seventies, that would have been awesome.

I think the word comeback should be associated with his songs having more of a presence on music charts than anything else. Rafi was always there, its just during a brief period his songs didn't make it as much to the charts as they did before. It doesn't mean they weren't hits, they were huge hits, but the representation was different. After 1976, they started making their presence more felt and it was an avalanche of Rafi everywhere.

Rafi had already emerged in a HUGE way. Check out, or ask anyone about the trends for the Binaca Geet Mala that happened in the later years. From 1977-79, Rafi and Kishore ruled supreme, but from 1979-1982 it was a total one man show. Whoever lived through that period knows for sure that Rafi was everywhere, very little of any other singer to be seen. Sure, Kishore and others were giving hits, but not as much as the Rafi hits. Until 1982 after Rafi's death, he still ruled the music charts, so imagine what could have been had he lived longer. He already proved he was the greatest, not that he needed to anyways because it was already known.

Myawan Bhai and PrinceAli ji, I think both of you have hit the nail on the head with your analysis of this topic. That's exactly what I had tried to point out in my posts above. Rafi Sahab's popularity did come down during some part of the 70s but that is more in relative terms than anything else, since Kishore Kumar's was on such a meteoric high. In no way did it meant that Rafi Sahab's greatness was in question as it was only a matter of popularity and not ability.

The word COMEBACK therefore can be aptly used in a situation like the one that we are talking about.

Friends,

I'm back!

First of all Eid Mubarak to everyone!

I must say I agree with Noorie. Its how you look at it. Are we talking change in popularity? Or are we talking change in number of songs?

As Awan-sahab mentioned, Rafi-saab's dominance is unmatched in musical history over the world. No one anywhere, be it in USA or elsewhere ever had such a supremacy and dominance as he had in th sixties.

To maintain such a high level of success is impossible. Eventually it will reduce, and off course there will be times that someone else is perhaps asked more for a while to sing in films than he.

BUT that doesn't mean that he LEFT the scene to make a come back. I also object to this word. Because I was around in that period and I know one thing: Rafi-saabs popularity among the people never declined, not even in this KK-RDB-RajeshKhanna-period. Even then he was the most popular singer of HFM, this because of his achievements in the years before it.

Such a supremacy/dominance/success doesn't fade away in a few months or years. The relationship he already had built with his audience was/is too strong to be destoyed or replaced so easily.

And what kind of a period are we talking about? From 1969 Aradhana till what was it? 74 or 75?

Guys please, this is unfair to a man who has stunned our musical world and changed it forever.

Please don't say come back, he never went away...

Now with the comeback of Harold we can stop talking about the comeback of Rafi. Even I find myself often groping around in the dark looking in vain for apt expressions (as I am trained as an engineer who is used to number crunching and calculations) and my verbal abilities are rather limited.

"Comeback" is a strange word with a "watershed" effect. While it seems to signal some sort of triumphal entry, it also appears to connote that there was some sort of ignominious exit prior to the comeback.

As far as the number of songs are concerned, if I remenber correctly, the figures given by Surjit Singh many years back seemed to show that Rafi never made any gains in the number of songs he sang over the last few years of his life. Each year the number of songs sung seem to dwindle out at an accelerating rate. Correct me if I am wrong here.

However, if we go by the number of hits each year it could be quite another story and many fans claim that the Rafi's hits charts were going steeper each year. But is this only a qualitative/subjective assessment? Do we have any quantitative/objective (sorry the engineer in me is wringing the neck of the artist in me) figures to substantiate this fact? Where is Prince Ali our statistical wizard? Prince, we need your help to build up the analysis here. Hope to hear from you ASAP.

Thanks.

Binod.

Binod-ji,

Here are the number of Rafi songs 'released' from the year 1975 onwards. The Source is Geet Kosh and (as you mentioned) Surjit Singh:

Rafi (1975-1980)
1975: 68
1976: 67
1977: 101
1978: 91
1979: 84
1980: 265

The figures for 1980 also include Rafi songs released in the years after 1980 which were recorded before July 31st 1980. As per these figures, once Rafi's total jumps in 1977, it stays consistent for about two years before jumping in a huge way in the last year of his life. The songs released in 1980 could have been recorded prior to that year (i.e 1979) and the same can be said about previous years before that. Now let us compare these stats with the years 1970-1974:

Rafi (1970-1974)
1970: 131
1971: 131
1972: 95
1973: 80
1974: 83

Now here is something interesting. Now let me post the Kishore stats for comparison purposes:

Kishore (1970-1980)

1970: 47
1971: 102
1972: 137
1973: 146
1974: 137
1975: 106
1976: 103
1977: 147
1978: 122
1979: 77
1980: 126

Now take a look at the stats when comparing Rafi and Kishore in terms of Total Output. Even after Aradhana (I always maintain this film didn't do anything to Rafi, but only raised Kishore's popularity), Rafi still had more released songs than Kishore in 1970 and 1971. Come 1972, Kishore's total is more and he maintains this until 1979 where Rafi regains numero uno in Total output (ofcourse by 77 he was already commercially back on top with Kishore). The rest of the stats show that Kishore's output year by year isn't that much over Rafi's ouput. The only years where Rafi seems to have a lean period where the output decreased a little is 1976. So according to stats this dispels the notion that Rafi was gone and he made a comeback, since he was always there.

Now for the 'hits' angle, for the years 1970-1980, and based on the BGM charts, Rafi had hits every year from 1970-1980. 1970 and 1971 had major Rafi hits but surprisingly in 1971 he seemed to have very little presence on the BGM charts which is quite surprising, maybe some manipulation took place. Let's list some 1971 films, Caravan, Mela, The Train, Pyar Ki Kahani, Gambler, Aap Aaye Bahar Ayee, Maryada, Rakhwala, Andaz, Mehboob Ki Mendhi, Mera Gaon Mera Desh etc. I don't think anyone would argue that the Rafi songs from these films weren't hits.
From 72-76 he had hits on the charts but the representation was not as much as 70 and 71 (even if the 1971 BGM list has very little Rafi, we can assume many of his hits were played on the radio that year). Songs that may have been hits may not have made it to the charts, but it doesn't mean they weren't hit songs.
Then from 77-82 Rafi's hits keep increasing, and particularly the years 1979-1982, according to the BGM trends it was a Rafi 'mini-wave' where Rafi was everywhere and very little of other singers around. So Kishore who found himself on the rise from 1971 and a few years after found himself facing the same situation from 79-82. Ofcourse Rafi ruled supreme for two plus decades where no other singer touched him so what happened in the years 1970-1980 don't really matter when talking about Rafi's greatness, but it still is interesting to discuss it.

Brinkster used to have a list of BGM songs from 1970-1980, including extra songs that weren't in the Top 30 or so but nonetheless hits. They took out those stats from the net so they can't be posted here.

I could easily post a BGM chart of the top hits of the year from 1970-1980, but that would not give the complete picture of Rafi's hits in particular years. Even if we do get charts that look complete, they may not be. We would have to have a really good source to list most of the hit songs of each particular year. I will look into this and try and find somewhat complete charts.

For example in the year 1976, Rafi had hits in Nagin, Charas, Jaaneman, Mausam, Bairaag, Laila Majnu etc. but the lists don't show all the songs from those films, so in other words they are incomplete. Also, if certain songs don't make it to a partcular list (like the ones on Google), it does not mean they weren't hits.

Hope this helps

Hi to all Rafians!

Well I am thankful to all who have contributed to this thread. Rafi sahib is a indeed a great singer with no second thoughts. There is no point of being derogatory to Rafi Sahib. Kishore and Rafi are two stalwarts of Indian music Industry. But at times I feel like that Rafians, over the years, still haven't been able to digest the fact that at one time kishore kumar did jolt the number one position of rafi sahib. I donot agree at all that kishore's success was just due to RD Burman. This is utter denial to one of another great singer i.e Kishore Kumar. One cannot deny kishore talent, his charismatic voice and unique singing style. Why people forget that kishore success came after 20 odd years and he delivered one hit after another to make it to the top after the aradhana boom. And once he was a the top, no one was around. Why people only remember rafi sahib and forget Mukesh, Manna Dey etc.

All those u have lived in that era are well aware that what Kishore Kumar meant in that era? Rafi came back with film "Hum Kisi se Kum nahin" but alas he could not live longer.


I am not here to to start a battlefield between the two GREATS. The idea behind starting this thread was just to share those songs of rafi sahib (post 1977 era) which are hard to find elsewhere. Rafi is popularly known for his 50s and 60s songs. U go out to market and u find kishore songs are abundant. Rafi songs are very hard to find, when it comes to 70s. U surf on internet and u find that kishore songs are all around but rafi songs are hard to find.

Let me also add we should accept success and failures. To every rise there is a fall. There is no singer who can sing all genres of songs. Had it been so, there would have been only one singer i.e either rafi or kishore. Every singer has some limitations otherwise there would have been no rafi,kishore,mukesh,manna dey, lata ,asha etc. WE ARE PROUD TO HAVE THEM ALL.

So my dear friends, donot waste time and contribute to this thread by SONGS.

Prince Ali bhai, a great post from your side and thanks a lot for it. I think that just settles the issue for one and all!

Look, let all of us, not make the mistake of considering this topic as a judgment on Rafi Sahab's standing as the greatest playback singer the World has ever seen (leave alone Bollywood, I suggest). My point simply is that anyone can lose or gain popularity and that could be due to many reasons, one of them being – Commercial value or selling value of the person or thing in question.

Now, don't take me wrong but let's accept it that 'Aradhana' did make some sort of a difference as it brought the film industry a new Superstar and Kishore Kumar became his voice for the next few years. Sure, Rafi Sahab's popularity didn't go down, but Kishore Kumar's must have had a steep rise and therefore that 'affect' can be seen in the stats given above (by PrinceAli ji), during the immediate post "Aradhana" years. I think that steep climb was obvious as it made complete business sense for film makers to sign the
"Rajesh Khanna-RDB-Kishore Kumar" combination for their new projects. So, Rafi Sahab never went anywhere it's just that Kishore Kumar dominated or for that matter became equally dominant as Rafi Sahab, during that small phase, and hopefully we all accept that for a small period, take 74-76, he even dominated the scene.

I know the Rafi Sahab loyalists and fans would stick to the opinion that he never went anywhere (I am also one of those) but that's not the debate at all. This is all about popularity of a singer during a certain period and that's all.

Take the example of the present era. I am a huge fan of Udit Narayan and have always regarded him as the greatest singer that we have today but that doesn't mean that I would close my eyes to the fact that Himesh Reshammiya (who is nowhere close to Udit in my opinion) has been the more popular singer than him or anyone else in the past 2 years. That is a fact and "pop charts" and whatever else you would like to take as a measure of popularity are ample proof of that. I mean the guy has just had an amazingly successful tour of England where he sang in front of a "packed to the rafters" Wembley Hall audience amidst standing ovations and what not. I know we can challenge pop charts and ratings but you can't challenge a live performance, right!

Now, if Udit Narayan has a great year (which is unlikely in today's scenario where new singers and songs come out every second day) then it would be aptly termed as a 'COMEBACK'. Now, Udit has not gone anywhere as he keeps coming up with some big hits every year but he is not the NUMERO UNO as he was a few years back and that is all in terms of popularity. So, I believe the same happened during the 70s as well and therefore when Rafi Sahab regained his position on the popularity charts and even otherwise (if that was ever lost at at all i.e.) the 'COMEBACK' was made, as he returned to the position that he had lost to Kishore Kumar "on the popularity charts" - point to be noted, My Lord!

Finally, I hope this rather 'loooong' post clears my argument. By the way, take it ... "just a little easy" friends, before you bombard me with criticism and ridicule on making comparisons. I am after all one of you - A Rafi Sahab fan to the Core - but, always open to rational analysis and discussion with the most honest and noble intentions at heart.

Yes only those can shed brightest light on this issue, who lived through that era....

thats true....but the world of showbiz is far cruel, here only rising sun is worshiped.

then why its so that whenever we think about the MDs associated closely with Kishore, only one name comes to the mind i.e. RDB.....but when we think about the MDs associated closely with Rafi sahab, there is a long list!

Whats Rafi's weakness?? honestly I haven't heard one.

Good example!

Haha thats a good one Binod-ji !

Thank you my Prince!

I think at the end your conclusion is the same as mine: Rafi-saab was always around, as popular as he was.

And the rise of one star doesn't automatically mean the descent of the other. Thats what I'm saying. Rafi-saab already had gained such a position that he stayed popular depsite the reduction in number of songs.

But Prince has listed the facts that in this so called "lean" period he kept on producing hits after hits. More hits in his lean period than probably Madonna en M Jackson made together in their whole career.

i don't know if thats true

Rafi-saab came to Holland in 73, 77 and 79 and he was loved and as popular as ever. All concerts sold out, people without seats standing in the halls, the aisles and doorways to see him. And he gave a couple of concerts.

Kishore Kumar gave 1 or 2 concerts here in 87. More was not possible, because the demand for him wasn't as big as it was for Rafi. Even Lata-ji couldn't get full house in only 2 concerts in 88. The first was sold out, the second wasn't.

Rafi: All sold out, and as I mentioned people standing, and even an extra concert more done than was planned. Need I say more on polularity? The so-called "Lokh Priyatha".

Razia ji, for all the effort that I have made to explain what this thread is all about to other members, I am sorry to say that you have made a complete mess of it by writing the above post and I don't mince any words about that at all.

Firstly, this forum is not the place to write a post like this, and I think I can say the same about HAMARAFORUMS as well. Here, all legends of Hindi Film Music exist peacefully and the members are also expected to to show proper respect to each one of them irrespective of who their personal favorites are.

I can, if I want, counter each of the "uncalled for" remarks that you have made in your post but I would not, as a matter of principle, like to stoop to the level of immaturity which you have exhibited.

By making remarks like Rafi Sahab had limitations and that no "one singer" could sing all genres (Wrong, because Rafi Sahab could and did), you have not helped matters at all and if you get some more criticism for this, you know where to point the finger.

So, please be more sensible before posting on the forums and, yes, every singer has their own forum and next time please make sure that you choose the right one to post such comments. I hope this piece of advice helps!

How about "The Second Innings?"

By the way,



I have been of a firm belief that it was not the song per se but the hot picturisation that made the song popular. Thanks to sizzling Sharmila. During the Filmfare Award nite, hearing the song live did not register much with me at least.

Nasir.
Nasir.

I am surprised!I would say

"Hum kaise aaye phir,ke mehfil humne kabhi chorda nahin
Shayad mere chaanewale phir mehfil mein aaye hongein"

LOL

i hope ignorant and hate mongers can see the above before coming out with ludicrous theories.

Rafisaab ruled the singing seen for more than 3 decades and even though all odds were aganist him in 70's, his mighty presence and impact resonnated and does to date.

I dont think Rafisaab had to make any comeback, if at all he kept raising the bar and the figures in 79 and 80 (and mind you its only for 6 months) suggests that he had raised the bar further.

Fine he sang fewer songs in 70's compared to earlier 25 years but only a fool can expect him to generate the same output (number of songs) in this decade. Rafisaab stands unmatched in all departments of singing, feat that stands tall and unmatched to date.

Binaca Geet Mala annual results for the following two years showed:

1977:

1.Laila Majnu-Lata- Koi Pathar se na mare. Also mention of Rafi songs by Ameen Sayani!

2. Amar Akbar Anthony-Rafi- Purdah hai purdah hai

3. Dharamveer- Rafi- O meri mehbooba

1978:

1.Ankhiyon Ke Jharonko Se- Hemlata - Ankhiyon ke jharokon se

2.Apnapan- Rafi/Lata- Aadmi musafir hai

3.Hum Kisise Kum Nahin-Rafi- Kya hua tera wada

And now look at 1979-80! Just when Rafi had made a complete comeback, he was gone! Laxmikant-Pyarelal gave him all seven songs in Sargam (four solos, three duets with Lata) and walked away with the best music award, all seven being top of the pops. They gave him four out of six in Suhaag (the other two being Asha’s) and they raged through the Binaca Geet Mala. They gave him five out of six (the other being Lata) in Aasha and did well enough.

Another indication of his sure return was the fact that Dev Anand who did not go in for Rafi ever since Gambler (1969) ? in which, too, he had just one ghazal ? returned to him after 10 years in DEv's latest(then!)Man Pasand though in just one song, under the baton of Rajesh Roshan, with Tina Munim. The song 'Logon ka dil jeetna hai to meetha meetha bolo' was a big hit!The weekly Binaca Geet Malas in 1980 clearly showed that that Rafi was easily dominating, sometimes with as many as 10 songs as compared to Kishore’s two (on May 28) out of a total of 16 toppers! Rafisaab was at the busiest phase of his career when he was snatched away from us on July 30th. 1980!

Thanks Prince Ali, your stats (given below) were very helpful. Although they do not provide the complete picture they do provide some interesting insights as you have so correctly pointed out.

Songs by Kishore & Rafi shown yearwise:

Year---------- Kishore-------- Rafi
1970---------- 47-------------- 131
1971---------- 102------------ 131
1972---------- 137------------ 95
1973---------- 146------------ 80
1974---------- 137------------ 83
1975---------- 106------------ 68
1976---------- 103------------ 67
1977---------- 147------------ 101
1978---------- 122------------ 91
1979---------- 77-------------- 84
1980---------- 126------------ 265

I disagree with the analysis that Aradhana had no effect on eroding Rafi's lead in churning out numbers simply on the basis of the above stats. It takes some time to start a new film or decide to make a switch over and finally complete the recordings and releases. This is called the lag effect. It is similar to the cobweb theory of economics when demand and supply do not synchronize. The supply is based on perceived demand which again is based on imperfect / incomplete information. The fact that when the shakers and movers of music decided to replace Rafi it must have been right after Aradhana but it must have taken a couple of years before the new songs were released.

At this stage of upheaval some adventurous parts of the HF music industry appear to want to break away from the Rafian mold that had held sway for so long. They had apparently wanted to redefine HF in a supposedly novel way. Actually it was neither novel nor Indian. It was based on a brilliant yodeler that had been discarded in the dustbin of history. They wanted to resurrect this talent in the form of a new avatar. The Burman home was the workshop where this bold experiment was being carried out.

< Message has been reported of containing derogatory message. Messaged edited with removal of unsuitable words. Member Binod refrain from using language that is not befitting on an open forum where lady members log, read and post.>

After the first year resulting in a drastic reduction in the release of Rafi songs, the music producers realized that they had overshot their estimated target. So there was no more any quantum descent henceforth. Just a few songs reduction per annum was all that happened. Even this reduction would have further vanished if were not for diehard anti Rafi producers like BR Chopra who gave Rafi less than half a dozen songs for the next twenty years since Gumrah. His first choice became Mahendra Kapoor, a Rafi clone (just imagine a fake Rafi being chosen consistently over the genuine Rafi himself). Then came Kishore followed by all others except Rafi. For the Waqt song Ravi had to virtually beg BR to allow Rafi to do the recording. I am sure there must have been a lot of little "other BR" effects coming into play. Somebody can do a little research on this.

If you look closely at Kishore's figures you will notice that the momentum of the Aradhana magic and other initiatives carried him to his peak in the year 1973 just two years after he replaced Rafi as the most prolific singer. Thereafter it was also downhill for him as well, indicating that the novelty phenomenon was wearing down even for the producers of music, proving that heavenly sweet music can in no way be replaced by novel music.

The year 1977 is one that I would not consider in my analysis as I would treat it as an outlier because it is quite anomalous in that both Rafi and Kishore made quantum leaps together that year. Apparently there are some hidden forces that came into play that registered meteoric rises for both these contenders for the numero uno position. It could be that more movies and/or songs were released that year from pending or ongoing work. Perhaps some of you can better explain this through your own research.

By the year 1979, the music producers had realized their mistakes and reinstated Rafi to his former position of the most prolific male singer. Again I would discard 1980 as it contains song that were released after his death as the sympathy factor could possibly come into the picture, as is happening in the "Teri Ada" launch (imagine Reliance trying to fleece us through its monopolistic tentacles).

Finally in the last few years of Rafi's life, I find a proliferation of multi-star songs as multi-star acting became more in vogue. Rafi was often included with Kishore in such ventures. Perhaps the producers thought that it would be a safer bet to include both.

Notice in my analysis I never talked about hits and the demand side. I just talked about the dirty game of supply. Hits are based on quality without any ulterior motives attached. Rafi scored over in the hits area as many Rafians can vouch for it.

So my conclusion is that once the honeymoon with a new avatar voice was over the producers of music had to go back to business as usual and use a more reliable and lasting talent such as Rafi. As far as the listeners were concerned the silent majority still adored Rafi. It was only some of the more vocal audience who clamored for change and opted for any other person except Rafi and their first choice often happened to be Kishore. But the hidden groundswell of support for Rafi was building up steadily even among the younger generation, so much so that one of the most vociferous and ardent support for Rafi comes from a generation that was born only after Rafi left for his heavenly abode.

Thanks friends. Had to get this out of my chest.

Binod.

Excellent analysis Binod-ji. I would also like to applaud LR-bhai, Harold-bhai, Yusuf-bhai and SS-bhai for their great posts as well.

Binod-ji, you are right, Aradhana's impact on Kishore's output, based on the stats is shown a couple of years down the road. However in terms of impact on Rafi, I am of the view that what really impacted his stats was his eight month leave or 'retreat' to England around late 1971 after a mualvi in Haj had told him singing was haram (I am sure Rafians here such as SS-bhai can elaborate more on this). During that time, with Rafi not around, composers veered more towards Kishore. The stats for 1970 and 1971 show Rafi churning out a lot of songs but for the years after it kind of drops. I have heard that the first song Rafi recorded when he came back was 'Aaj Mausam Bada' (Loafer) and then we see composers balancing Rafi and Kishore.

Sure Aradhana was a breakthrough, one man SD Burman (with the help of his son) virtually changed the music scene with this score (originally mostly meant for Rafi). It helped Kishore finally breakthrough as a lead singer, but had Rafi not taken that leave, things might have been a little different. Sure Kishore would have still been on a high but maybe the Rafi stats would have shown something else. This is all hypothetical ofcourse, but even then Rafi still kept recording on a consistent basis (maybe not as much as before) but its not as if he disappeared anywhere for one year then came back, he was always there.

It is ironic that with Rafi leaving town, Kishore not only got his breakthrough score, but also received a boost in the early part of the decade. This is not under-stating his talent in any way, just pointing out what Rafi's absence from the scene did.

RD's two aces Amar Prem and Kati Patang were also big hits that helped Kishore attain the top position as well.

Thanks for that brilliant analysis Binod Ji.

Will be back shortly again.

Nasir.

Very true.

Binod ji, a great analysis indeed.
However, the question still remains - Did Rafi Sahab make a 'COMEBACK' or not? I hope we get some answers on that, based on the various points mentioned by different members.



Now, what I can make out from the stats is that while Kishore Kumar's number of songs saw an astonishing high during the immediate "post Aradhana" years, Rafi Sahab's number of songs first stabilized and then went down in comparison to Kishore Kumar's during the next few years. The reasons for Rafi Sahab's declining graph could be various but one would have to say that Kishore Kumar's growing popularity could be the most important of all those.

I think we have to admit the fact that during the period 71-76, Kishore Kumar was the more popular singer and based on those stats one can clearly say that he was ahead of Rafi Sahab. Therefore, when Rafi Sahab's graph started going upwards from 77 onwards it was a huge leap in comparison to the previous 2-3 years (in comparison to KK) and I think to make it there from where he was during 74,75,76, it can only be termed as a 'COMEBACK' and it can mainly be credited to Rafi Sahab's enormous talent and versatility.

Has anyone noticed that this thread started by Razia for sharing songs of Rafi in his later years, has turned into a page full of analysis

Prince Ali ji, absolutely right! By the way, here's the one post to which all the credit, for the discussion and analysis, should go to:



Yes, Noorie ji had termed the title of the post offensive and that has got the "wheels in motion" as they say. Still, things might not have come to this point had Myawan Bhai not expressed his surprise at Noorie ji's post and not posted this as a reply:



After that, as they say - "The Rest is History". This topic, after these two posts that I have mentioned above, took a complete turn and became something completely different than what it was expected to be.

We can only thank Noorie ji and Myawan Bhai for making us all think and come up with our versions of the situation at hand. I am sure, as a result of this discussion, most of us have discovered something new and interesting about Rafi Sahab and the evolution of Hindi Film Music during the 70s. I thank all the members who made this discussion a wonderful experience to be a part of.

So, has a resolution been arrived at yet regarding the title change of this thread?
Or is it the idea 2 continue with the status quo?

Noorie ji, where do you stand on this remains the big question, especially, after 3 pages and 39 posts of interesting analysis and discussions. I mean, since it was you who wanted the title changed, it's you who must decide, right?.. Well, maybe!

Nevertheless, I hope others can chip in with their own decisions as we can do with that... if for nothing else, then to ensure that the topic comes to a "dramatically epic" end!

Gaurav Ji, Noorie Ji has a great knack of hijacking (livening up? pepping up?) various topics. That is one of the things that I admire her for! Honestly.

Venkat

Venkat ji, I am fully aware of Noorie ji's great ability!
Why else, do you think, I would have taken the trouble to counter Noorie ji's point about the "Offensiveness of the Topic's Title" with such 'devotion'?

As I said before, it was great to be apart of this debate!

http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=425777

I am delighted to hear that honest confession gentlemen but that’s enough sweet talk centred around me.

The discussion awaits a resolution; so what’s the verdict? Should the thread title be changed or not?

1. If Rafi Sahab did not receive the usual attention from the masses for a short time in the early 70s - it was for several reasons, none relating to musical merit. People are fickle and change is inevitable. Of course, Diamond never goes out of style.

2. When I look back at songs from 70s, I never see a decline in quality. This translates that had I been around back then, he'd have never been gone for me - he'd always be around with his songs.

3. People today are not exposed to whimsical waves / hype of fickle Indian press at the unfair expense of Mohd Rafi that existed in 70s. All that has long since washed away and someone from currents times can only look back at what remains: the concrete truth. What I see are my favorite songs, especially in 1973 - supposedly his leanest point. If THAT is his leanest phase - it just shows what a super singer he was.

4. Having said all that, Rafi Sahab did literally leave recording studios in 1972. Nevertheless, he was always around with his amazing voice - but that's something else. This break did have impact and when he returned to singing - in that sense it was like a comeback.

5. How come the numbers listed don't reflect an 8 month (or more) period of no recording? Did he really multiply his output within a short period to make up for it? It's striking that his output almost triples in 1980. How are these things possible considering that Rafi Sahab, when working, always had the busiest schedule. Is it humanly possible to multiple a schedule like that? I'd like a small, rough idea of the output of Rafi Sahab was at any point in 60s for comparison (no need for looking up or tallying). Maybe in 70s the output of MDs / songs declined in general and greats like Rafi / KK were limited in output as a result.

6. Of course - the numbers game is trivial. If Rafi had sang even 23 songs in 1973 - it is his amazing quality that counts, not quantity. It'd hardly take away from his greatness. Venkatji had posted numbers for these years at mohdrafi dot com and they were noticeably different. No big deal though.

7. 1969 was one of my favorite years for songs of Rafi Sahab. In terms of musical merit - he had no match that year. Not even close. Having said that, I'm happy for Kishore to get the Filmfare - he deserved a break. I agree with someone else, this never took away from Rafi - it was only a gain for Kishore.

8. Sometimes things don't turn out the way we want them or think they should be. That's fine, everyone is human. Part of being a good fan IMO, is to accept these truths. For whatever reason (not recording for many months?), the term comeback is appropriate He was always around producing great music but it wasn't the usual. Things got back to normal soon enough. Rafi Sahab is so great that I happily take him for what he was.

9. In his last years, Rafi Sahab was depressed due to nasty lobbying in the industry and his health wasn't consistent - these are things the 1965 version didn't suffer as badly from (of course there was politics back then too - HMV royalties). 1980 Rafi is my favorite for personal reasons - but 1965 Rafi was even better. Every quality about Mohd Rafi is his best quality - so even if something isn't the usual - you can't point it out. He was always an AMAZING GREAT singer blessed with magic - even till has last songs recorded.

10. His voice was SO FULL, so lively, so melodious, so crisp & clean in the opening of the 1977 duet "Chor Sipahee". People may not tout it musically as Rafi's classic in 50s - but that is one of my favorite openings with any singer.

Excellent analysis by everyone. I have spent quite a lot of time on this topic over and over
again and I find that the single most important cause of Rafi's relative decline in popularity
during that period was Binaca Sangeet Mala annual list outcome of 1971 itself. Imagine out of 137
released recordings in the year 1971 if only one features in Annual list that explains it all.
It may not be out of place to mention that in 1972 Annual Binaca list as many as 5 to 6 Rafi
songs started appearing and that trend continued for a few years before Rafi's stronghold
on Binaca further increased by late 76. IMO I think some vested interests may have a role in charts
manipulation at that time but there are lots of reasons for Rafi songs not getting
their due during that period.


Thanks
Naveen

"Gentlemen" ? Oh, thanks for the compliment, by the way!

Well, as for the Verdict, mine has been loud and clear - The Title Should Not Be Changed! as it is appropriate in the context of the discussion.

Unfortunately, it seems like everyone here is quite happy to sit on the fence on this issue and therefore for us to get a clear verdict might be too difficult. I hope "Clarity of Thought" prevails, eventually!

SS i love you!

You made a good point here. Rafi-saabs dominance increased at the end of the eighties and the end of his life. Once again he shattered all competition with striking results. Hits kept coming out, even years after his sad demise.

I still don't agree with the title.

Binod-ji explained very good the "lag effect".

And this is very obvious in the Rafi-figures. He went for Hajj in 1970 and 1971. This was really a moment of peace and rest and time for devotion for him after a abnormal production-level he maintained in the sixties.

What he did in the sixties is just unparalelled. To take a break after such a glorious and successfull period is only normal. Every Star has this need after a huge achievement.

And because of this intermission in 70-71, you see a decrease of number of songs in the years after 71, thats quite logical, since songs are recorded far before the actual release. Clear examples are the various songs released after his death.

And what do we see? People take disadvantage of this and make up some kind of an theory that Rafi-saab was eclipsed. NO way if you ask me!!!

His answer to this rubbish was demolishing!!! National award/FilmFare award for HKKN and several hits. And not just hits of a man close to retirement, no on the contrary: jewels like :Tu Hi Woh haseen Hai", and films Sargam, Laila Majnu, AAA, Naseeb, Sajan Ke Saheli, Sajan Bina Suhagan, Suhaag, Shaan, Kaalia, DharamVeer etc etc etc

And as someone earlier said: he had magic in his voice.

No one can touch me like he can. He can make me laugh and cry. He can make my day, even after 27 years. When I'm sad, I only have to listen to him, than hope comes back and I gain strenght again.

That is Mohammed Rafi to me...he is part of my life...he lives in my heart...no day goes by without the thought of him...

I miss him very much, but on the other hand he's always with me, through his voice......Eternal Rafi.

May Allah bless him with Jannah!!!

thanks Harold bhai, for your kind words.