Guys, I'm appending a post made by our friend Archie-da in another forum:
From: Archisman Mozumder
Date: Sat Jul 31, 2004 7:14 am
Subject: Today is Rafi-saab?s death anniversary

Dear friends,
I wanted to share this two weeks ago but Vishwas (Nerurkar) had asked me to time
it appropriately.
After the very pleasurable BBM-Mumbai meeting at Mr. Amit Datta-Majumdar?s place on July 11th, Vishwas, & I were returning to our respective homes in an
auto-rickshaw. I duly complimented Vishwas for his great effort in bringing out
Guru?s book and told him that of all the articles/interviews in that book, I
liked Leena Chandravarkar?s, the most. Vishwas agreed and went on to add that
her interview was so spontaneous that he had to omit some portions due to lack
of space etc. It was then that he told me three anecdotes from the same
interview that moved me very much. (I was, anyways, emotionally softened up that day after the wonderful get-together and the lovely rarities of Guru which I had heard.)

It was in 1980 that Leena-ji overcame her apprehensions and past sorrows to
become romantically inclined towards Guru. The relationship blossomed and on
August 4th, Leena-ji reached Gauri-Kunj in the morning with a big cake to spend
the day with Guru. On seeing the cake, Guru was aghast and said in a distraught
tone ?how did you ever think that I will celebrate my birthday when Rafi-saab is
no longer amongst us?? How can I have cakes when the great man has passed away only 4 days ago??? A startled Leena-ji apologized, saying that she had no idea of his feelings towards Rafi-saab. Guru, who had calmed down by then, told Leena that he was sorry for his outburst & requested her to leave the cake behind so that the rest of the family & staff may have it. He (Guru) will not be able to enjoy the cake in that mental state.

During the making of Badhti Ka Naam Daadi, Guru approached Rafi-saab and told him that it was his deep desire that Rafi-saab lends his voice in one of the
songs of that movie. Rafi-saab?s prompt reply was ?yeh koyi poochhne waali baat
huyi? Tumhara film mein to main zaroor gaaun-gaa. Bolo, kab recording karna
hain?? Needless to say, Rafi-saab refused to accept his payment after recording
?bandh mutthi? and Guru had to literally force him to accept his remuneration.

The director of Amar Akbar Anthony wanted Anthony to make an appearance
on the stage and sing the line ?ke akbar tera naam nahin hain? as Akbar was rendering ?purdah hain purdah?. Though the director was okay with the idea of Rafi-saab singing for both the characters, Laxmikant was insistent that for Amitabh Bacchan?s voice, it had to be Guru. Now the problem was two-fold. How does one go and request Guru (by then, the top playback singer by a mile) to render just one line in a song? And how does one go and tell Rafi-saab that Guru will be present in the recording room to render a line in that foot-tapping qawwaali? Especially when in 9 cases out of 10, Rafi-saab was the first and only choice for a qawwaali? Well, all apprehensions vanished when both the singers enthusiastically agreed and went on with the recording as if it was the most natural thing in the world!

Thanks very much ROM, for sharing the article with all of us
It was such a loving and moving anecdote.

Thanks rom. Excellent article and gave insight on Rafi saab & Guru relations.

Mohd.

Thanx Rom

Thot af adding this PIC relating to the article...mite be old for some of u guys................

Hi,

Thanks for posting this info.

While this is the reality, so many people today try to elevate one singer by demoting the other. When those legends themselves had so much affection and respect for each other as persons and for each others talents, people who create rivalries between them are doing great injustice to the memories of such great singers.

For true music lovers like us, Rafi Sahab is Rafi Sahab, Kishore Da is Kishore Da...

thanks,

-Issac.

Great article!

I was just wondering if there is a list somewhere of all
the songs that have been blessed with the voices of both
KK and Rafi saab.

Hi Ankur / Talaikya

Here’s the list – initially posted by KCP

Regards
Iqbal


Subject: RE: [Meri Awaaz Suno] Rafisaab's songs with Kishore Kumar ( includes Mixed ones too )


Har Aish Hai ( Only Yoodeling of KK )
Aji Tum Hi Kaho - Maalkin
Kahin Se Oonchi Kahin Se Neechi - Maalkin
Tiggi chaugi Panji Chhakki - Mastana
Chhod Chale Pyaari Duniya Ko - BhaagamBhaag
He Baabu Yeh Hai Zamaana - BhaagamBhaag
Aadhi Tum Kha Lo - Fifty Fifty
Mere Jaisa Nahin Milega - Fifty fifty
Aaj Suhani Raat Re - Nayaa Andaaz
Duniya Ke Bazaar Mein - Nayaa Andaaz
Ulfat Mein Har Ek - Paisa Hi Paisa
Bin Paisa Har Khel - Paisa Hi Paisa
O Meri Maina - Karodpati
Do Akalmand - Akalmand
Chal Shuru Ho Jaa - Humjoli
Tujhme Ishwar Allah ( part 1 )- Nanha Farishta
Tujhme Ishwar Allah ( part 2 )- Nanha Farishta
Halka Halka Sa Rang - Khoj
Yoon Na Sharma - Parwana
E Kahan Chali - Jungle Mein Mangal
Title Song - Yaadon Ki Baaraat
Haan Bhai Yahi To Mai - Raampur Ka Laxman
Sa Re Ga Ma - Chhupke Chhupke
O Kahan Chali Zara Ruk Ja - Love In Bombay
Hum Dil Ke Sachhe - Chhakar Pe Chhakar
Bade Maze Se Gujar - Chor Sipahi
Kaisi Padi Maar - Vachan
Duniya Ek Adalat - Imaan Dharam
Seedhe Raaste Chaloge - Heeralaal Pannalaal
Badi Rangeen Mehfil - Muqaddar
Okay Re Fakire - Muqaddar
Maine To Maangi Hai - Duniya Meri Jeb Mein
Maine To Maangi Hai ( Sad ) - Duniya Meri Jeb Mein
Teen Batti Waala - Muqabla
Khuda Hi Juda Karein - Aap To Aise Na The
Tera Jalwa Tauba - Aapke Deewaane
Tumko Khush Dekhkar - Aapke Deewane
Mere Dil Mein Jo - Aapke Deewaane
Title Song - Aapke Deewaane
Dil Dhadak Raha Hai - Jyoti Bane Jwaala
Bane Chahe Dushman - Dostana
Mere Saathiya So Na Jaana - Dostana
Hum Teenon Ki Yaari - Neeyat
Jaanu Meri Jaan - Shaan
Pehli Nazar Mein - The Burning Train
Band Mutthi Laakh Ki - Chalti Ka Naam Zindagi
Chana Zor Garam - Kraanti
Rang Jamake - Naseeb
Gaao Senorita - Jaan-e-Jaan
Ek Rasta - Raam Balraam
Ek Mahal Ma - Swayamvar
Aye Nothing Is Impossible - Zakhmi
Zameen Dekhi Falaq Dekha - Sangraam
Aji Ek Sang Udaao - Zamaane Se Poocho
Dekh Ke Tujhko - Amar Akbar Anthony
Parda Hai Parda - Amar Akbar Anthony ( only one line of KK )
Kya Mausam Hai - Doosra Aadmi
Ishq Mein Hum To - Farishta Ya Qaatil
Hum Premi Prem - Parvarish
Hay Hay Sabko Pata Hai - Amar Shakti
Naa Jaane Kaise Pal - Badalte Rishte
Mehfil Mein Aaj - Karmayogi
Mile Jo Kadi - Kasme Waade
Aye Yaar Teri Yaari - Waqt Ki Deewaar
Aye Mujhko Tujhko - Ek Aur Ek Gyarah
Mere Dildaar Ka - Deedar-e-Yaar
Miljul Ke Gaate - Giraftaar

34 duets - 34 mixed singer songs

Thanks a lot Iqbal!

Excellent article ROM. Kindly requesting your permission to "borrow" your article for my blog.

http://kishorekumar.blogspot.com

thanks a ton!
rama

Another bit to prove Rafi Kishore friendship

Thanks ROM ji for that piece of history.

One thing though, is that I do not agree with the views of the person who related this :





Sometime ago, a member posted a list of the amount of songs Rafi saab and Kishore da sang in the 70's......and it was almost the same amount if not a little differences here and there......I do not agree that Kishore da was the the top playback singer by a mile.....in fact by 1976 Rafi saab had already started his so called "comeback" phase with the release of 'Laila Majnu'.....he was never out of the race....the media only created this hysteria and I don't believe there was a comeback since he was always there.....singing less due to his own reasons....and not due to the fact he was getting less songs because from about 1970-1975 he had plenty of songs and if in some of those years they were not as much as Kishore da's then it was due to his own reasons as I mentioned above.....by 1977 (I am mentioning this year because the article relates to this year)....his songs were on the top of the charts along with the songs of Kishore da......so in other words they both had their songs on the charts......Rafi saab still had his popularity as high as ever.....and by the end of the 70's he confirmed his position as the the leading singer for about three decades (I am taking all the decades into consideration)......yes I agree Kishore da had made inroads in the 70's in terms of popularity and number of songs but not enough to diminish Rafi saab from the scene.....just because Kishore da may have sung more songs in some of the years in the 70's decade does not mean he was the top playback singer.....post-Aradhna Rafi saab was still getting lots of work (with a great percentage of hits) even when Kishore da was popular which shows he was still a leading singer.....if Rafi saab had completely lost out on songs then one can say his place was taken over.....but then again quantity is not everything.....it is the quality of songs that counts alot as well....all of the above mentioned is just based on quantity but this alone does not make a top singer.....it is the skill and talent of the singer that counts too......also you can see that after Rafi saab passed away, the quality of music went down and the industry virtually collapsed and it still is in a hole with a few exceptions here and there......I don't think even Kishore da enjoyed the 80's alot......his contemporaries (Rafi and Mukesh) were gone.....and there was only noise being created......and he was being asked to sing those crazy disco songs and not good meledious songs......quantity does not matter when you are talking about a singer being the top......this is just my two-cents worth.....I am not trying to start an argument here lol ........its just really nice to know that both singers had respect for one another.......and I respect all great artists......Long live Rafi saab and Kishore da in our hearts.

Cheers

Ali

I was listening to "Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara" when I was writing my last post and ended off with "Yaadon Ki Baraat".....and now I just finished listening to "Dil Kya Kare" from 'Julie' for the ninth time today......can't get enough of that song......its beautifully sung.....awesome music.....just too good......and I would put it in my Top 10 list any day of Kishore da songs......just thought I'd share that lol.


Ali

PrinceAli:

<I don't think even Kishore da enjoyed the 80's alot......his contemporaries (Rafi and Mukesh) were gone.....and there was only noise being created......and he was being asked to sing those crazy disco songs and not good meledious songs......>

Perhaps thats true, for the quality of music was declining. A singer of Kishore-da's talent was just not getting the kind of songs that measured up to it.

<....post-Aradhna Rafi saab was still getting lots of work (with a great percentage of hits) even when Kishore da was popular .....>

Again, I would agree with you.

PrinceAli, am I right that you don't approve of that writer's use of the words 'top playback singer"?

IMHO, there is no yardstick to measure "top" or 'best" or "greatest". Every individual is entitled to have his/her own opinion on that, based on personal likes and dislikes.

If the writer had instead used the words "most popular" instead of "top", perhaps there might be no problem with that. Even as one who grew up with the songs of Rafi-sahab (and over that long period of time became for me a natural choice), I cannot deny that post-Aradhana, Kishore-da became the most popular singer. It is not a matter of numbers or quality. Numbers do not translate into quality, and quality is a matter of opinion.

I quote from a message I had posted on a related subject:

"We already had a treasure of songs by Rafi-sahab. All we had to do was listen to them. And here now we were being mesmerized with new offerings, musical treats of the current times, in the newly-rediscovered voice of a familiar Kishore-da. For the younger generation his voice was the voice of their own heroes of the time. For my generation he was an old friend who suddenly came back to visit us. How could we possibly refuse him entry into our hearts, just because our beloved Rafi-sahab was already ensconsed there? It was not a matter of comparison".

<........its just really nice to know that both singers had respect for one another.......and I respect all great artists......Long live Rafi saab and Kishore da in our hearts.>

We would all second that.

Unni uncle,

Even if the author had used the word "most popular", I still would not have agreed to that term. I do agree that Kishore's popularity in the 70's increased considerably, and in that decade his popularity was very high but along with him, Rafi was right there with him.

IMO, there are ways to determine a top-class singer from just a normal singer leaving aside personal likes or dislikes. For example, the singer's range, voice modulation, style etc.. In these categories I feel Rafi saab has no peer. He is an institution by himself and I consider his singing closest to perfection, even more than Lata ji's.





You mentioned a very interesting point here. You grew up with the songs of Rafi saab and he was one of your favourite singers and at the same time you also liked Kishore da's songs and what he brought to HFM. I am growing up with the current generation of singers, hence I was not around during the time of Rafi saab or Kishore da. I have researched history as to what critics and all have said about both the singer's popularity (they are not all true facts). I have come to the conclusion that Rafi saab dominated most of the scene in the 50's and the 60's which made him the most popular and in the 70's he shared the popularity with Kishore da. It does not have anything to do with who was a better singer. But when the author said "top" singer, I personally do not agree with that and even if he used "most popular" because I feel Rafi saab's songs in the 70's were very popular as well.

I mean as I said, I have come across many articles and critics who have written many different things and even the charts at that time may not have shown the truth about what songs were very popular or not but one thing is that I feel Rafi saab was very popular or probably the most popular singer of all time until his death. The reason why I say this is because his death created such a loss and such an impact, unheard of till today, and it literally shook the industry and IMO I don't think that could have just came from anyone. It had to have been from a person who was seen as a "monarch" in playback singing as well as a person who was very popular.
I remember a member once back on MAS said that Rafi saab had once visited Holland for a concert in the 70's and his popularity was still the same as ever, and I am sure in other places around the world Rafi saab's popularity was the same as it was two decades earlier. I am not saying he was the most popular in the 70's because Kishore da also shared the limelight with him, it is just when it is mentioned Rafi saab was down and out, I beg to differ.

Unni uncle, I was introduced to Rafi saab by my father who is a big Rafi saab fan and who grew up with his songs like you did, and for that I will always be grateful to him because I would not have known of a talent like his especially growing up in this generation. Not many of my generation listen to old songs and it's really nice to see others around my generation like Sharad bro for example and others listening to the golden era of songs. It's also nice that we come across people like you to share our listening experiences with and what we learn from you is very valuable and I thank you for that.

For me Rafi saab is the ultimate. This does not mean I do not appreciate other great talents such as Kishore da, Mukesh ji, Talat ji, Yesudas ji and SPB ji. I was also introduced to Kishore da's songs and like them alot as well. A good number of his songs are my eternal favourites and I am also lucky I listen to his songs. He is one of my favourite singers and I appreciate his talent and the songs he sang and I know he was very popular during the 70's.

Unni uncle, you grew up in the era of both Rafi saab and Kishore da so you definitely know more than I do and you may know what songs were popular at that time based on your experience. I have also come to know from my father what songs were popular at that time based on his experience and as I mentioned earlier, my research. Ofcourse I do not claim to be a musical historian, but I am just writing down my views based on my knowledge just as everyone else does here. You are all very lucky to have grown up during the time of such collosal talents. These are just my thoughts and opinions. Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Cheers

Ali

Unni Sahib,

You probably were replying to a thread started by me about the possiblity of charts being manipulated in early seventies when you qutoted the above message.

I think there should be no doubt in anybody's mind if facts are to be respected that Kishore Da was the most popular male playback singer or sometimes most popular singer (male dropped ) for a good part of seventies as suggested by the countdowns of Binaca

I have a earnest desire to find and figure out why many of hit songs (or at least the hits as we knew them later afterwards ) didn't find deserving places in many of those charts in early seventies .... . Interestingly from 1977 to 1981 (even a year and a half after Rafi passed away) ,Rafi's presence of the same countdown i.e Binaca was strategically significant.

Except for 1979 for the above years, between Rafi and Kishore the top song of the year from a male playback was Rafi's

In 1977 Parda Hai Parda was No 2 and O Mere Mehbooba was No 3 and Aap Ke Anirod of Kishore was No 4. The top song of the year being Lata's Husn Hazir Hae

1978 varshik geetmala had Aadmi Musafir Hae and Kya Huva Tera Wada at No 2 and No 3 and the top song of the year was again female song Akhiyon Ke Jharoko se

1979 had 2 songs at No 1 and one being honarary and both were by Kishore . Rafi had a place at number 3 and that too it was three singer Rafi,Kishore and Suman song

1980 Daffiwale of Sargam was No 1 song of year .Kishore's song from Karz was at number 2.

1981 Amitabh's song Mere Angene Mein was No 1 ,Zindag ki Na Tute of Nitin Mukesh and Lata was No 2 and Rafi/Amitab Chal Chal Mere Bhai was No 3.Again between Rafi and Kishore Rafi's number was better placed at number 3.

As far as number of hits on the charts for top 32 are concerned ,for years 77 ,78 and especially 79 Kishore might have double or more than Rafi's number but for 1980 and 1981 the number is pretty much the same .It is possible Rafi may have had slightly more in 80.Some pundits say it was in 1980 when Rafi took over from Kishore in terms of ALSO number of appearences in Binaca .Prior to that 1970 was the year (again post Aradhana) when Rafi had more hits that Kishore on Binaca top 32 .

As an example In 81 ,Kishore had 10 songs and Rafi had 9 songs in Binaca top 32 and remember Rafi had passed away in July 1980 itself.

Even in 1982 two and a half years after his death ,Rafi had 4 songs in top 32 of the year as opposed to 13 songs of Kishore.But then topmost Rafi song was at No 6 (Poocho Na Yaar Kya Huva)


So saying that Kishore was a top male playback singer by a mile seems to be pure rhetoric in light of latter half of seventies but as far as popularity charts go ,in early seventies especially 71 ,72 ,his presence on charts is something which even Rafi or Lata hadn't achieved. In 71 ,Kishore's output (20 songs) was just a little less than all the leading singers male (Rafi and Manna 1 ,Mukesh 3 and Mahinder 2) and female (lata 10 Asha 7) put together

Again in 72 , same thing repeated Kishore had 23 songs ,Rafi 5 ,Mukesh 4 ,Lata 13 ,Asha 6. Kishore's ouput is almost the combined output of all other major singers.It was only 73 when Lata (20) matched Kishore(19) in terms of number . I have read somewhere Lata had expressed unhappiness to Amin Sahni about some of their hit songs being dropped out..I am not sure if Amin Sahni started doing something about it 73 and onwards at least for Lata

And then there are always surprises ,76 can be called the year of Mukesh if the placement of the hits on the charts is any indicator(It actually is).In top 10 of 76,Mukesh was predominant. Maybe it was his best show on top 10 of the charts in his entire career.

P.S Friends my intention was not to post this on BBM .I wanted to post on MAS as it migh more belong but then I couldn't relate to the current thread.

Thanks
Naveen

Naveen Bhai,

A very good post indeed. Excellent stuff..keep it up.

Folks:

I posted a brief reply but deleted it after I belatedly noticed the forum. I get the feeling this discussion is in the wrong forum! This thread started as a fine gesture by ROM. So, out of sheer courtesy, if this discussion is continued, we should have it elsewhere. Kya khayal hai?

Nahi UNNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII yeh gazab mat karna! Let bygones be bygones...

Bahut padh liya hamne iss vishay mein ham thak gaye hai hame jaane do

N

Theek hi kaha aapne. Main bhi is baat ko maanta hoon. Ummed hai hamare laadley bachhey bhi maan jayenge aur is vishay par aur charcha nahin hoga. Chalo: NEW TOPIC: Unni is the "handsomest" in the "Beastiality" Thread.

Absolutely!! Undubitably the handsomest beast there!!!

T

Unni uncle,

I agree with your view......let us move this discussion elsewhere......this may not be the right place to talk about what we are all discussing

Ali