In 1969 (when I was 20), had you asked me the names of the leading male singers in HFM, I would have listed them alphabetically as Mahendra Kapoor, Manna Dey, Mohd. Rafi and Mukesh. And I would have added my regret that Talat-sahab is not heard in any more new songs.
And had you asked me, "What about Kishore Kumar", I would have answered: "He sings fine, when he sings, but we hardly hear him. Apparently he is too busy as an actor or making movies. I don't think he cares too much about singing".
When he did sing, we loved his "Merey mehboob qayaamat hogi", and connoisseurs would hum/sing "Raat kalee ik khwaab mein aayi".
Two years pass, and you ask me the same question. Guess what my response would have been!
Much has been written about "Aradhana" and the Rajesh Khanna wave. But for me (and perhaps for countless others), it was "Thoom bin, jaaoon kahaan" that came as a revelation. For us, who had grown up listening to Rafi-sahab, his version was just another routine Rafi song. We had heard him rendering effortlessly numerous such numbers over two decades. It was a number he could sing in his sleep! But Kishore-da's version stood out. One, he was then an under-rated singer, and two, because his voice was infrequently heard. In all fairness to Rafi-sahab, IMHO the musical layout of the "happy" faster version was less appealing than the slower and more melodic version of the "sad" version. (Thanks to kcp and Archie, today I was savouring the Bengali version which is arguably even better!).
My regret is that Kishore-da rendered so few songs in the 50's and 60's. HFM would have been richer, had he then devoted himself to singing. Then again, film fans we would have missed the actor, producer, director, lyricist and composer!
As for me, being a music-fan and not much of a movie buff, the trade-off would have suited me just fine.
Cheers --- Unni
Full Version: Just some thoughts of the 60's and Kishore-da.
Unni ji, very perceptive comments.
Only one point: I believe Raat kalee ik khwaab mein aayi, from Budda Mil Gaya, came in the 70s, while in your post it is implied that it came by 1969. Did you mean this song, or some other?
Only one point: I believe Raat kalee ik khwaab mein aayi, from Budda Mil Gaya, came in the 70s, while in your post it is implied that it came by 1969. Did you mean this song, or some other?
rom:
Nahin, baba. wohi gaana. That less-known gaana meant more to connoisseurs than the onslaught of the "Aradhana' gaaney.
Woh zamaana, woh maahoul moojhay yaad hain. Magar kis saal tha, yeh tho hum theek tareh se keh nahin sathey. Shaayad "Aradhana" se ek/do saal pehley, shayad ek/do saal baad. (Jub aap meri umr ho jayengey, thub yaadon sey rishta bunaayengey, saalon say nahin).
Mujhey bus itna hi yaad hai ke mera ek dost, public park kay railing pe baithay hoovey, "Raat kullee" badi khoobsoorti say gaatey thay. Aur woh bhi aisa shaqs jinkey labon se "Merey sapnon ki raani" ya 'Badan pe sitaarey" kabhi nahin nikalthey! Tauba! Tauba! Bohut hi shaukeen banda tha woh. Main jaisa maamooli nahin!
Cheers --- Unni
Nahin, baba. wohi gaana. That less-known gaana meant more to connoisseurs than the onslaught of the "Aradhana' gaaney.
Woh zamaana, woh maahoul moojhay yaad hain. Magar kis saal tha, yeh tho hum theek tareh se keh nahin sathey. Shaayad "Aradhana" se ek/do saal pehley, shayad ek/do saal baad. (Jub aap meri umr ho jayengey, thub yaadon sey rishta bunaayengey, saalon say nahin).
Mujhey bus itna hi yaad hai ke mera ek dost, public park kay railing pe baithay hoovey, "Raat kullee" badi khoobsoorti say gaatey thay. Aur woh bhi aisa shaqs jinkey labon se "Merey sapnon ki raani" ya 'Badan pe sitaarey" kabhi nahin nikalthey! Tauba! Tauba! Bohut hi shaukeen banda tha woh. Main jaisa maamooli nahin!
Cheers --- Unni
| QUOTE |
| Jub aap meri umr ho jayengey, thub yaadon sey rishta bunaayengey, saalon say nahin |
Hope to be wise too, like you, at your age!| QUOTE |
| Main jaisa maamooli nahin! |
Nahin Unni ji, aap bahut khaas insaan hein!
| QUOTE |
| (Jub aap meri umr ho jayengey, thub yaadon sey rishta bunaayengey, saalon say nahin) |
Ho sakta hai aapne jyada DIWALEE ya CHRISTMAS manayee hogeePar YAADEN AGAR Majboot ho to UMAR se kya waasta
, aache aache dagmaga jaate hai 
Regards,
| QUOTE (unni @ May 4 2004, 10:28 AM) |
| today I was savouring the Bengali version which is arguably even better!). My regret is that Kishore-da rendered so few songs in the 50's and 60's. |
Yes indeed I love the Bengali version more than the three Hindi versions.
FYI the Bengali version was released 2 years before ( 1967 ) the release of Pyaar Ka Mausam ( 1969 ) !!! and was a big hit then, but a mega hit in the 70's
Oh yes...he sang very few songs for other actors ( around 88 songs other than himself and Dev Anand )...
Dev Anand - La Jawaab songs - All super duper hit ones.
Kishore Kumar - Comedy/Fast - nothing to beat till date.
- Sad/Sentimental/Mellow - there are so many gems
which are enough ( for "me" ) for a lifetime!. Yes the
quantity of these songs were very less, agreed.
| QUOTE |
| Oh yes...he sang very few songs for other actors ( around 88 songs other than himself and Dev Anand )... Dev Anand - La Jawaab songs - All super duper hit ones. Kishore Kumar - Comedy/Fast - nothing to beat till date. - Sad/Sentimental/Mellow - there are so many gems which are enough ( for "me" ) for a lifetime!. Yes the quantity of these songs were very less, agreed. |
KCP kya baat kar rahe ho 
MERE MEHBOOB QAYAMAT HOGEE - Mr X in B'bay
KOI HUMDAM NA RAHA - ZHUMROO
AA CHAL KE TUJHE - DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAON MEIN .... ??????
| QUOTE (Poppy @ May 4 2004, 12:10 PM) | ||
:blink: KCP kya baat kar rahe ho :unsure: MERE MEHBOOB QAYAMAT HOGEE - Mr X in B'bay KOI HUMDAM NA RAHA - ZHUMROO AA CHAL KE TUJHE - DOOR GAGAN KI CHHAON MEIN .... ?????? |
haan KCP bhai teek hi kehe rahe hai.. compared to other singers.. Guru's hindi songs total to around 2900 songs.
Of which he has sung some 400 odd songs before the 1970s period.
But then who cares for the numbers??? Guru's voice is all that matters :)
N :)
I must have mistaken understanding KCP bhai 's post I thought he liked GURU's voice for other singers
| QUOTE |
| Dev Anand - La Jawaab songs - All super duper hit ones. Kishore Kumar - Comedy/Fast - nothing to beat till date. |
From above I thought KCP bhai wanted to say Kishore Singing for Kishore has not given any memorable GEMS
Regards,
My mistake
| QUOTE |
| I thought he liked GURU's voice for other singers |
I thought he liked GURU's voice for other heroes
Poppy-ji:
Agar aap mayray saath baithengey, tho hum roz X'Mas aur Diwali munaayengey! Pooraaney gaaney soonthay jaayengey aur main sungeet ki dooniya ki yaadein dohrata jaoonga. Oommeed hai aap shareek ho, aur yaadon ko taaza karein (khwahish hi sahi).
Cheers -- Unni
Agar aap mayray saath baithengey, tho hum roz X'Mas aur Diwali munaayengey! Pooraaney gaaney soonthay jaayengey aur main sungeet ki dooniya ki yaadein dohrata jaoonga. Oommeed hai aap shareek ho, aur yaadon ko taaza karein (khwahish hi sahi).
Cheers -- Unni
Unni Ji,
| QUOTE (rom @ May 4 2004, 01:51 PM) |
| Nahin Unni ji, aap bahut khaas insaan hein! |
I agree.
I have been a member here for a short while, but I have always found your posts very insightful, expressive and informative.
Dear rom and Talaikya:
Thanks for your kind words.
Jub hum mandir jaatey hain, tho sirf apnay kul-devta ki moorti ke saamney hi nahin haath jodthay hain. Mandir men kayee devtaon ke moortiyaan hotey hain. Hum har moortee ke saamney sar jhookaatay hain.
Vaysay hi, sangeet ek mandir hai, aur sangeet kay kalaakar oon moortiyon ke jaisay hain.
Cheers --- Unni
Thanks for your kind words.
Jub hum mandir jaatey hain, tho sirf apnay kul-devta ki moorti ke saamney hi nahin haath jodthay hain. Mandir men kayee devtaon ke moortiyaan hotey hain. Hum har moortee ke saamney sar jhookaatay hain.
Vaysay hi, sangeet ek mandir hai, aur sangeet kay kalaakar oon moortiyon ke jaisay hain.
Cheers --- Unni
Unni Ji Says,
Much has been written about "Aradhana" and the Rajesh Khanna wave. But for me (and perhaps for countless others), it was "Thoom bin, jaaoon kahaan" that came as a revelation. For us, who had grown up listening to Rafi-sahab, his version was just another routine Rafi song. We had heard him rendering effortlessly numerous such numbers over two decades. It was a number he could sing in his sleep! But Kishore-da's version stood out.
Uni ji how do u definne a routine Rafi song? The fact that Rafisaab is the greatest singer is that he was not routine. He used to sing every song diffeently depending on the actor, situation and the mood of the song. You really need to liten to Rafisaab more closely then you will hopefully realise that how different he was in each and every song sung by him.
KK sang Tum Bin beautifully but the only reason it stood out was beacuse of the craze that had developed after Aradhna. I dont think the song stood out for any other reason. Would it be right to say that KK's song in Caravan stood out against the gems sung by Rafisaab that are still heard and remembered today. But the fact is during those days that one KK number from carvan was heard more than any other Rafi song from the same movie.
Look mate it was a KK popularity wave where whatever he sang was popular and no one except Rafisaab could overcome that wave which he successflly did.
Regardless of the wave I still believe that KK was the second best after Rafisaab and a singer of top class.
Much has been written about "Aradhana" and the Rajesh Khanna wave. But for me (and perhaps for countless others), it was "Thoom bin, jaaoon kahaan" that came as a revelation. For us, who had grown up listening to Rafi-sahab, his version was just another routine Rafi song. We had heard him rendering effortlessly numerous such numbers over two decades. It was a number he could sing in his sleep! But Kishore-da's version stood out.
Uni ji how do u definne a routine Rafi song? The fact that Rafisaab is the greatest singer is that he was not routine. He used to sing every song diffeently depending on the actor, situation and the mood of the song. You really need to liten to Rafisaab more closely then you will hopefully realise that how different he was in each and every song sung by him.
KK sang Tum Bin beautifully but the only reason it stood out was beacuse of the craze that had developed after Aradhna. I dont think the song stood out for any other reason. Would it be right to say that KK's song in Caravan stood out against the gems sung by Rafisaab that are still heard and remembered today. But the fact is during those days that one KK number from carvan was heard more than any other Rafi song from the same movie.
Look mate it was a KK popularity wave where whatever he sang was popular and no one except Rafisaab could overcome that wave which he successflly did.
Regardless of the wave I still believe that KK was the second best after Rafisaab and a singer of top class.
| QUOTE (rom @ May 4 2004, 12:24 PM) |
| Unni ji, very perceptive comments. Only one point: I believe Raat kalee ik khwaab mein aayi, from Budda Mil Gaya, came in the 70s, while in your post it is implied that it came by 1969. Did you mean this song, or some other? |
rom-ji:
Ultraindia.com Filmography
Film Name, PYAR KA MAUSAM. Production Year, 1969. Language,
Hindi. Genre, Love story. Producer, Nasir Hussain Films. Director, Nasir Husain.
Film Name ARADHANA
Banner Shakti Films Production Year 1969 Language Hindi
Genre Love story Producer Shakti Samanta Director Shakti Samanta Music Director S D Burman
Whew! I am not losing my memory!
Cheers --- Unni
rom-ji:
Film Name BUDDHA MIL GAYA
Production Year 1971
Language Hindi
Genre Suspense
Producer L.B. Thakur
Director Hrishikesh Mukherjee
Apparently, all three were around the same period of approx 2 years.
Cheers --- UKM
Film Name BUDDHA MIL GAYA
Production Year 1971
Language Hindi
Genre Suspense
Producer L.B. Thakur
Director Hrishikesh Mukherjee
Apparently, all three were around the same period of approx 2 years.
Cheers --- UKM
Ss-ji:
I respect your views.
I had posted what is just my recollection of those years and how we felt as young listeners of those days. The only purpose was to share it with the younger generation of HFM fans. While I try to avoid expressing any "judgemental" or "opinionated" views, if something came across as such, they are of course very subjective and merely a point-of-view, not necessarily a fact.
To paraphrase what I had posted to rom and Talaikya: Sangeet ke maamley mein Rafi-saheb merey liyey kul-devta samaan hai. Magar mujhey Kishore-da aur anya kalaakaron kay mandiron mein sar tokney mein koi sunkoch nahin.
Cheers --- Unni
I respect your views.
I had posted what is just my recollection of those years and how we felt as young listeners of those days. The only purpose was to share it with the younger generation of HFM fans. While I try to avoid expressing any "judgemental" or "opinionated" views, if something came across as such, they are of course very subjective and merely a point-of-view, not necessarily a fact.
To paraphrase what I had posted to rom and Talaikya: Sangeet ke maamley mein Rafi-saheb merey liyey kul-devta samaan hai. Magar mujhey Kishore-da aur anya kalaakaron kay mandiron mein sar tokney mein koi sunkoch nahin.
Cheers --- Unni
| QUOTE (Poppy @ May 4 2004, 05:02 PM) | ||
My mistake
I thought he liked GURU's voice for other heroes :ph34r: |
arghhhhhhhhhh kya bhartha banaa raha hai tu Poppy??
hehehehe
n :P
| QUOTE |
| Poppy-ji: Agar aap mayray saath baithengey, tho hum roz X'Mas aur Diwali munaayengey! Pooraaney gaaney soonthay jaayengey aur main sungeet ki dooniya ki yaadein dohrata jaoonga. Oommeed hai aap shareek ho, aur yaadon ko taaza karein (khwahish hi sahi). Cheers -- Unni |
Zaroor Zaroor ..... Hamaree Khush Naseebi
SuhanaSafar Says
| QUOTE |
| Uni ji how do u definne a routine Rafi song? The fact that Rafisaab is the greatest singer is that he was not routine. He used to sing every song diffeently depending on the actor, situation and the mood of the song. You really need to liten to Rafisaab more closely then you will hopefully realise that how different he was in each and every song sung by him. |
EvenKK is not a routine singer , By posting such statments U simply want to convey people as a EXCEPTIONAL Rafi fan you just can't here when something good comes abt KK. I personally enjoy TUMSE DOOR RHE KE HUMNE JANA PYAAR KYA HAI - ADALAT song comfertably listening but not viewing ...The gr8 Rafi voice is not at all suitable for Angry youngman in those days.
| QUOTE |
| KK sang Tum Bin beautifully but the only reason it stood out was beacuse of the craze that had developed after Aradhna. I dont think the song stood out for any other reason. Would it be right to say that KK's song in Caravan stood out against the gems sung by Rafisaab that are still heard and remembered today. But the fact is during those days that one KK number from carvan was heard more than any other Rafi song from the same movie. |
If u think that it was a craze then what abt RAFI ... after all it's only craze which any singers create in people when it was RAFI's time Rafi didn't failed and KK does the same
| QUOTE |
| Look mate it was a KK popularity wave where whatever he sang was popular and no one except Rafisaab could overcome that wave which he successflly did. Regardless of the wave I still believe that KK was the second best after Rafisaab and a singer of top class. |
Till doom's day if U think so personally no one has any objection! , but in future it's a request again don't try to impose ur thoughts on others mind . Have u seen any KK fan using WHo is Number 1 and Who is number 2 ...why do u always RACE abt it. Being a respectable member of the forum plz THINK over it
BEST REGARDS
| QUOTE |
| arghhhhhhhhhh kya bhartha banaa raha hai tu Poppy?? |
Masaala thik thak gira ke nahin bharte mein
Aachee quality ka use kiya hai ... while listening to GURU NUMBER
TU GARAM MASAALE DAR KHATEE MEETHI WANGEE
Poppy
Poppy says,
EvenKK is not a routine singer , By posting such statments U simply want to convey people as a EXCEPTIONAL Rafi fan you just can't here when something good comes abt KK. I personally enjoy TUMSE DOOR RHE KE HUMNE JANA PYAAR KYA HAI - ADALAT song comfertably listening but not viewing ...The gr8 Rafi voice is not at all suitable for Angry youngman in those days.
I did not say that KK is a routine singer so dont fall off your pants. I dont care what you enjoy or do not. Rafisaab has sung 26,000 great songs so it really does not matter what you think about one of his songs. Angry young man..what are you talking. We are talking of the greatest playback singer not angry men.
Poopy says:
If u think that it was a craze then what abt RAFI ... after all it's only craze which any singers create in people when it was RAFI's time Rafi didn't failed and KK does the same
Rafisaab had to work his way through great singers like Durrani, Talat, Mukesh, Hemant Kumar and Manadey. Rafisaab was considered greatest not only by the public but also his co singers.
Poppy says:
Till doom's day if U think so personally no one has any objection! , but in future it's a request again don't try to impose ur thoughts on others mind . Have u seen any KK fan using WHo is Number 1 and Who is number 2 ...why do u always RACE abt it. Being a respectable member of the forum plz THINK over it
Truth hurts doesnt it. I am not imposing my thoughts on anyone, this is a forum and I have a right to air my opinion.
Further my mail was ditected to Uniji and i respect his response. And please "angry young man"......you make me laugh.
EvenKK is not a routine singer , By posting such statments U simply want to convey people as a EXCEPTIONAL Rafi fan you just can't here when something good comes abt KK. I personally enjoy TUMSE DOOR RHE KE HUMNE JANA PYAAR KYA HAI - ADALAT song comfertably listening but not viewing ...The gr8 Rafi voice is not at all suitable for Angry youngman in those days.
I did not say that KK is a routine singer so dont fall off your pants. I dont care what you enjoy or do not. Rafisaab has sung 26,000 great songs so it really does not matter what you think about one of his songs. Angry young man..what are you talking. We are talking of the greatest playback singer not angry men.
Poopy says:
If u think that it was a craze then what abt RAFI ... after all it's only craze which any singers create in people when it was RAFI's time Rafi didn't failed and KK does the same
Rafisaab had to work his way through great singers like Durrani, Talat, Mukesh, Hemant Kumar and Manadey. Rafisaab was considered greatest not only by the public but also his co singers.
Poppy says:
Till doom's day if U think so personally no one has any objection! , but in future it's a request again don't try to impose ur thoughts on others mind . Have u seen any KK fan using WHo is Number 1 and Who is number 2 ...why do u always RACE abt it. Being a respectable member of the forum plz THINK over it
Truth hurts doesnt it. I am not imposing my thoughts on anyone, this is a forum and I have a right to air my opinion.
Further my mail was ditected to Uniji and i respect his response. And please "angry young man"......you make me laugh.
| QUOTE |
| Posted by: unni May 5 2004, 04:45 AM Dear rom and Talaikya: Thanks for your kind words. Jub hum mandir jaatey hain, tho sirf apnay kul-devta ki moorti ke saamney hi nahin haath jodthay hain. Mandir men kayee devtaon ke moortiyaan hotey hain. Hum har moortee ke saamney sar jhookaatay hain. Vaysay hi, sangeet ek mandir hai, aur sangeet kay kalaakar oon moortiyon ke jaisay hain. Cheers --- Unni |
Unni ji, well said. And your devotion shows. Though you (I believe) adore Rafisaab, you have the wisdom and the great sense not to get into the rankings game (unlike many fans of both Rafisaab and Kishore Kumar) and don't try to forcibly thrust Rafisaab's (unquestionable) greatness down any fan's throat.
If admiration a particular singer aroused in his co-singers is the criterion, KL Sehgal would be the No. 1, because all the Greats said he was the Greatest. Anyhow, enough of the numbers game. I will maintain that there will never be a consensus, and a consensus is impossible and stupid to achieve.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE (rom @ May 4 2004, 12:24 PM) Whew! I am not losing my memory! Cheers --- Unni Apparently, all three were around the same period of approx 2 years. Cheers --- UKM |
Losing your memory? Far from it! You're in the spring of youth, Unni ji! As Kalyanji Anandji (one of them) told Kishore Kumar in a Doordarshan studio concert/recording, "forty is naughty"!
Kishore Kumar heartily agreed, and sang Rafta Rafta Dekho Aankh Meri Ladi Hei!
| QUOTE |
| Truth hurts doesnt it. I am not imposing my thoughts on anyone, this is a forum and I have a right to air my opinion. |
Gosh! These purveryors of "truth"!
| QUOTE |
| Truth hurts doesnt it. I am not imposing my thoughts on anyone, this is a forum and I have a right to air my opinion. Further my mail was ditected to Uniji and i respect his response. And please "angry young man"...... |
Suhana Sahab wohi to TRUTH hurts... U just can't accept when a KK fan says hey TUM BIN JAOON KAHAN KK version is better than Rafi's version . See how U reacted on that statment from Unni's post...... U start the numbering game again
aapki fitarat mein bethata hi nahin KK ke baare mein kuch aacha sunana ...
And to whomsoever u dictate ur post but when it comes to ur saying like
.....
| QUOTE |
| I still believe that KK was the second best after Rafisaab and a singer of top class. |
.... Has any one asked U ke suhana bahi bataao number one kaun hai
I can feel your INNER TONE abt differentiating 2 giants. My example of AMITABH song wasjust to explain you abt your statment
| QUOTE |
| He used to sing every song diffeently depending on the actor, situation and the mood of the song. |
Lekin aapki soch ....
...cahlo jaane do aap se nok zhonk ka bhi ek alag maza hai aate rehna
Poppy,
Yes Truth hurts and one needs to be aware of the facts to speak it. The fact you say that KK's version is better makes me laugh as it speaks volumes of your awareness or should I say lack of awareness. Wht not sit down and go through the hustory of playback singing from 1949 to 1980 and the truth will fall hard on you.
Why cant u guys digest once and for all that Rafisaab is the greatest singer ever. No where I have said that KK is not a good singer simply beacuse I know my music. However the truth is that Sachin Tendulkar can never ever get passesed Don Bradman.This is me explaining you in very simple tems.
Whats so funny joker boy about Rafisaab singing each song in a different manner. He was the ONLY singer who could act while he was singing without compromising the quality of the song.
Your argument lacks punch simply beacuse your knowledge about music is limited and hence futile to waste my time to explain you anything.
Yes Truth hurts and one needs to be aware of the facts to speak it. The fact you say that KK's version is better makes me laugh as it speaks volumes of your awareness or should I say lack of awareness. Wht not sit down and go through the hustory of playback singing from 1949 to 1980 and the truth will fall hard on you.
Why cant u guys digest once and for all that Rafisaab is the greatest singer ever. No where I have said that KK is not a good singer simply beacuse I know my music. However the truth is that Sachin Tendulkar can never ever get passesed Don Bradman.This is me explaining you in very simple tems.
Whats so funny joker boy about Rafisaab singing each song in a different manner. He was the ONLY singer who could act while he was singing without compromising the quality of the song.
Your argument lacks punch simply beacuse your knowledge about music is limited and hence futile to waste my time to explain you anything.
| QUOTE |
| Why cant u guys digest once and for all that Rafisaab is the greatest singer ever. No where I have said that KK is not a good singer simply beacuse I know my music. However the truth is that Sachin Tendulkar can never ever get passesed Don Bradman.This is me explaining you in very simple tems. |
I like your post(s) abt Rafi as it's a knowledge abt another singer . Personally I can digest U as a gr8 RAFI FAN , and see the greatest singer term what u used is totally relative . U belive him to be gr8test singer of all time .. Please Belive so but the DEMARKATION STYLE of U between 2 singers is pathetic
Sachin Tendulkar and Bradman example .... ok U'll see the History what tendulkar is gonna create in Cricket ... I am confident (U can say Highly Over Confident) in next 100 yeras no one will ever reach/dream his records .... My GURU have sung much less number than RAFI .. but the quality
any time any place 
| QUOTE |
| Your argument lacks punch simply beacuse your knowledge about music is limited and hence futile to waste my time to explain you anything. |
Boss Tumhari bhi argument kaunsee strong hai ... Don't worry abt my knowledge abt music ...U may be master in understanind different RAGAs of music ...U see I UNDERSTAND only One RAAG .....RAAG KISHORE ....suna hai kabhi ..nahin suna to thik se sunana
U better next time don't waste explaing me as well as posting silly and fishy stuff
.
Poppy
I won't waste much of my important time to discuss with a naive and jeuvenile angry young man.....
The best way to reply your mails is through a 8 letter word
NONSENSE
I won't waste much of my important time to discuss with a naive and jeuvenile angry young man.....
The best way to reply your mails is through a 8 letter word
NONSENSE
I don't care whatever word u use..... phewwwwwwwww
BTW ur post abt ANOTHER SITE for KK Fans...
let me say THANKS to U on behalf of all KK Fans here those who were not knowing came to know abt it
Socha mere GURU ka ek Gaana sunaoo aapko ..par kya kare I've not seen U and don't know how old are U ... so it's better I don't sound any more insulting to U
And do post some good posts abt KK
BTW ur post abt ANOTHER SITE for KK Fans...
let me say THANKS to U on behalf of all KK Fans here those who were not knowing came to know abt it
Socha mere GURU ka ek Gaana sunaoo aapko ..par kya kare I've not seen U and don't know how old are U ... so it's better I don't sound any more insulting to U
And do post some good posts abt KK
| QUOTE (suhana_safar @ May 6 2004, 03:44 AM) |
| Why cant u guys digest once and for all that Rafisaab is the greatest singer ever. |
How come ?
Please explain in details.
If u cannot, then let me also put one statement "kishore is the best singer in Indian Film History"...( leave asidea few taansen/bawla(ra), etc kinda films
)No one can match the depth of emotions he has attained
PS : I forgot to add : Kishore is the most versatile film personality that India has ever seen. Now you better put your own research points forward.
All one has to do is to mention two names (unmentionable!) in a message, and guess what (?), sparks fly! It's like letting a cat among the pigeons
Please consider rom's very balanced and reasonable observation:
(QUOTE)
I can't force you to agree that Kishore Kumar was the greatest, and won't like if somebody tries to force me to accept that some other singer was the greatest. This only engenders bitterness and hatred. So I think the word "greatest" is the culprit. If we stick to "my favourite", there won't be any problems. And also terms like "truth" when ranking singers are out of place. If I may say so, there are no truths... there are only opinions.
(UNQUOTE)
For that matter, someone could suggest that Manna Dey IS the best, as versatile as and classically better-trained than the two artistes we are squabbling about.
Bus, ab bohut ho gaya. Let's close this subject before the moderators intevene!
"Doston mein koi baat"...... therefore "Om, shaanti shaanti Om"!
Cheers --- Unni
Please consider rom's very balanced and reasonable observation:
(QUOTE)
I can't force you to agree that Kishore Kumar was the greatest, and won't like if somebody tries to force me to accept that some other singer was the greatest. This only engenders bitterness and hatred. So I think the word "greatest" is the culprit. If we stick to "my favourite", there won't be any problems. And also terms like "truth" when ranking singers are out of place. If I may say so, there are no truths... there are only opinions.
(UNQUOTE)
For that matter, someone could suggest that Manna Dey IS the best, as versatile as and classically better-trained than the two artistes we are squabbling about.
Bus, ab bohut ho gaya. Let's close this subject before the moderators intevene!
"Doston mein koi baat"...... therefore "Om, shaanti shaanti Om"!
Cheers --- Unni
KCP says,
How come ?
If u cannot, then let me also put one statement "kishore is the best singer in Indian Film History"...( leave asidea few taansen/bawla(ra), etc kinda films )
No one can match the depth of emotions he has attained
PS : I forgot to add : Kishore is the most versatile film personality that India has ever seen. Now you better put your own research points forward.
Well you can live with it mate. If you believe Kishore is the best then be happy with it as the fact is something else.
You are asking me to explain why Rafisaab is the greatest singer..... . Oh God where do you guys live and do you actually have ears and do you guys actually read.
Just tell me one thing: Where was KK between 1949 - 969. If he was really the best then why was he considered a non singer in that period.
Kishore Kumar was a top class singer there is no doubt about that but sorry mate no where near Rafisaab. You will just have to live with it.
How come ?
If u cannot, then let me also put one statement "kishore is the best singer in Indian Film History"...( leave asidea few taansen/bawla(ra), etc kinda films )
No one can match the depth of emotions he has attained
PS : I forgot to add : Kishore is the most versatile film personality that India has ever seen. Now you better put your own research points forward.
Well you can live with it mate. If you believe Kishore is the best then be happy with it as the fact is something else.
You are asking me to explain why Rafisaab is the greatest singer..... . Oh God where do you guys live and do you actually have ears and do you guys actually read.
Just tell me one thing: Where was KK between 1949 - 969. If he was really the best then why was he considered a non singer in that period.
Kishore Kumar was a top class singer there is no doubt about that but sorry mate no where near Rafisaab. You will just have to live with it.
Uni ji,
I respect your views but no where I have said anything insulting about KK. I have always maintained that he was a top class singer.
However some of these guys who are behaving innocently now are the ones who were part of a slandering campaign against Rafisaab that was both repulsive and unlike KK who had great respect for Rafisaab.
So you get my point, I am speaking against such mischievous elements and not KK. I was the one who came out and criticised Yaar Mere for calling KK a clown. Where were these so called KK fans them, it was a me who stood against such mischievous mails.
Let me make one thing clear to KK fans, I admire KK as a singer and as a person and my mails are not directed towards him but a few mischieveous elements within you.
I respect your views but no where I have said anything insulting about KK. I have always maintained that he was a top class singer.
However some of these guys who are behaving innocently now are the ones who were part of a slandering campaign against Rafisaab that was both repulsive and unlike KK who had great respect for Rafisaab.
So you get my point, I am speaking against such mischievous elements and not KK. I was the one who came out and criticised Yaar Mere for calling KK a clown. Where were these so called KK fans them, it was a me who stood against such mischievous mails.
Let me make one thing clear to KK fans, I admire KK as a singer and as a person and my mails are not directed towards him but a few mischieveous elements within you.
| QUOTE |
| Suhana Safar said: Well you can live with it mate. If you believe Kishore is the best then be happy with it as the fact is something else. You are asking me to explain why Rafisaab is the greatest singer..... . Oh God where do you guys live and do you actually have ears and do you guys actually read. Just tell me one thing: Where was KK between 1949 - 969. If he was really the best then why was he considered a non singer in that period. Kishore Kumar was a top class singer there is no doubt about that but sorry mate no where near Rafisaab. You will just have to live with it. |
SS ji, it's just this sort of fruitless sloganeering that riles fans of other singers, and leads to similar extremist views from the other side and thus ends the possibility of any amiable discussion on any issue.
Where was Kishore Kumar between 1949 and 1969? Well, he has acted in nearly 100 movies, most of them between this period. He wrote and directed movies, wrote and created music. For eight years, even as his career slumped, his cared for his stricken wife.
He sang for his friend Dev Anand and brother Ashok Kumar (and others, I suppose)
Then, he was a difficult man to work with, and most music directors of those days, used to more professional attitude of other singers, had no patience for him.
Rom
I totally agree with you but when someone asks me a stupid question og proving why Rafisaab is the best then you cant blame me.
My question was for someone whom I should have not responded to, it was in no way to demean KK.
I get your point and I will ignore posts from now on that try to vent out bad feelings.
Thanks my friend.
I totally agree with you but when someone asks me a stupid question og proving why Rafisaab is the best then you cant blame me.
My question was for someone whom I should have not responded to, it was in no way to demean KK.
I get your point and I will ignore posts from now on that try to vent out bad feelings.
Thanks my friend.
| QUOTE |
So you get my point, I am speaking against such mischievous elements and not KK. I was the one who came out and criticised Yaar Mere for calling KK a clown. Where were these so called KK fans them, it was a me who stood against such mischievous mails. |
SS ji, I wonder who you are hinting at.
About that particular insult to Kishore Kumar, I personally didin't want to dignify it by seeming to notice it. Good of you for standing up against it, though.
I guess SUHANA must be feeling Guilty abt posting such statements in BBM .
Though the statments were not at all abusing to any one , but were cleverly stated 
downgrading Kishore using his OLD numbering style 
.
Many times U've considered polite attitude of KK fans as DEFENSIVE . Suhana U r welcome any time in BBM ...but leave those old stuffs abt Numbering , Versatility (KCP's argument is STRONG !) ....etc ....
Abt Moderators ... till the time no one is crossing limits of Language here their silence is appriciable . They are doing most difficult job ..I feel so as I don't have quality of being Nuteral ...
Thanks
abt posting such statements in BBM . Though the statments were not at all abusing to any one
, but were cleverly stated downgrading Kishore using his OLD numbering style .Many times U've considered polite attitude of KK fans as DEFENSIVE
. Suhana U r welcome any time in BBM ...but leave those old stuffs abt Numbering , Versatility (KCP's argument is STRONG !) ....etc ....Abt Moderators ... till the time no one is crossing limits of Language here their silence is appriciable . They are doing most difficult job ..I feel so as I don't have quality of being Nuteral
... Thanks
"KCP's argument is STRONG"
That is a biased statement. Or should I say a very weak one . Whatever....
There is no point of going ahead with this discussion........... have fun and enjoy KK songs. I will too......
Also to reinforce you that I am feeling far from guilty but feel proud about my knowhow of music.
That is a biased statement. Or should I say a very weak one . Whatever....
There is no point of going ahead with this discussion........... have fun and enjoy KK songs. I will too......
Also to reinforce you that I am feeling far from guilty but feel proud about my knowhow of music.
SS & POPPY:
It's 3 AM where I am and your shouting is keeping me awake. Instead, go and start listening to the Khandwa concert (Part 1 of 9 posted just now).
Good-Night!
Cheers --- Unni
It's 3 AM where I am and your shouting is keeping me awake. Instead, go and start listening to the Khandwa concert (Part 1 of 9 posted just now).
Good-Night!
Cheers --- Unni
Good morning UNNI ...when U ar back to the forum
| QUOTE |
| That is a biased statement. Or should I say a very weak one . |
U r free to think so no objection... u did mistake again posting
| QUOTE |
| Also to reinforce you that I am feeling far from guilty but feel proud about my knowhow of music. |
Din doogna aur raat chaugunaa badhaao aur feel karo ....
Last one from me for the SERIES ... bye suhana
| QUOTE (suhana_safar @ May 7 2004, 05:20 AM) |
| So you get my point, I am speaking against such mischievous elements and not KK. I was the one who came out and criticised Yaar Mere for calling KK a clown. Where were these so called KK fans them, it was a me who stood against such mischievous mails. |
Utter hogwash. Check out the link below for Yaar Mere's post on 7th April.
http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1499&st=5
Till I raised this issue on the 23rd April (!!) NO ONE in that forum had the slightest iota of decency to condemn that post. Then of course, came the hurried, reluctant policing. (So, I was definitely there, contrary to tall claims).
All this talk of 'holier than thou' behaviour is coming out of a person who had once started a topic on this esteemed KK forum demanding that 'yours truly' exit from HF (as if his ancestors own this forum). The reason for this unprovoked post?? A reaction to a debate in the KK vs. Rafi topic, where, before I stepped in, Rafi fans were having a field day insulting KK.
The moment some resistance was shown in that forum (a forum which was supposed to initiate healthy debates), the acrimony was immediately initiated in this hallowed KK forum with a lot of avoidable words & phrases. I have no problems in giving it back as good as I get but when it comes to this hallowed forum of BBM, I'd rather back-track than have any acrimony. I have the same feeling for the MAS forum where, in my few posts, I've tried to maintain a decorum & decency which befits Mohd. Rafi. (I guess, only rationals debate. Fanatics are more comfortable slinging mud at all & sundry.)
And talking about mischevious elements, I remember the same member once declaring that 'it's pointless to compare Mohd. Rafi with anybody else. Kishore can be compared with Manna Dey, Mukesh or Kumar Sanu. (!!!!!!!!). If this isn't mischecious intent, I do not know what is??
And lastly, I've seen a lot of HUGELY knowledgable music fans whose most important trait is humility. I'm yet to come across a true fan of music who is 'proud of his know how' of music. This is because Indian Music is like a fathomless ocean and a truly kindered soul will understand it's true worth. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are 'proud' of their knowledge.
-kkbhakt.
P.S. I remember Mr. ROM (an extremely rational & knowledgable fan of music) once being addressed as 'CD ROM'. No rhyme or reason. An unprovoked attack at somebody who had a difference of opinion.
| QUOTE |
| NONELIKEKK wrote: P.S. I remember Mr. ROM (an extremely rational & knowledgable fan of music) once being addressed as 'CD ROM'. No rhyme or reason. An unprovoked attack at somebody who had a difference of opinion. |
I too remember it, and remember that I reacted to it with some heat (and may agian in future!)
But I have come to believe that one must try to achieve synthesis, and that anger and bitterness will breed themselves, multiplied manifold.
As for my alleged 'rationality and knowledge', I try to be rational... But it's only the rather impersonal exchanges on the internet that give rise to the illusion that I'm knowledgable. There are people here who are knowledgable, but I'm not among them.
rom:
This snippet should really be in the BOLLYWOOD forum, but I guess it is too outdated to make any sense there.
When you mentioned, "For eight years, even as his career slumped, his cared for his stricken wife", it reminded me of something mentioned by our friends, a couple (now retired and living in San Diego, California).
During their days in Bombay my friends lived in the same neighborhood as Madhubala's family. Their daughter, then a little girl, wanted to see the famous actress Madhubala and the parents managed to arrange a visit. Apparently, the actress became quite fond of the little girl and even asked her to visit again. After their visit, as my friends were leaving, Madhubala courteously escorted them to the doorway. But she was ailing and so weak that to stand erect she had to support herself by leaning on the wall.
My friends did not meet Kishore-da (surely they would have mentioned it otherwise). All they said was, "He knew of her illness even before marrying her. He loved her deeply and married her, nonetheless".
This first-hand version seems more credible than the keechad-oochaalna in the unofficial/unauthorised biography of the actress, written long after both Madhubala and Kishore Kumar had passed away. And the dead cannot defend themselves.
For once I won't sign off with "cheers".
--- Unni
This snippet should really be in the BOLLYWOOD forum, but I guess it is too outdated to make any sense there.
When you mentioned, "For eight years, even as his career slumped, his cared for his stricken wife", it reminded me of something mentioned by our friends, a couple (now retired and living in San Diego, California).
During their days in Bombay my friends lived in the same neighborhood as Madhubala's family. Their daughter, then a little girl, wanted to see the famous actress Madhubala and the parents managed to arrange a visit. Apparently, the actress became quite fond of the little girl and even asked her to visit again. After their visit, as my friends were leaving, Madhubala courteously escorted them to the doorway. But she was ailing and so weak that to stand erect she had to support herself by leaning on the wall.
My friends did not meet Kishore-da (surely they would have mentioned it otherwise). All they said was, "He knew of her illness even before marrying her. He loved her deeply and married her, nonetheless".
This first-hand version seems more credible than the keechad-oochaalna in the unofficial/unauthorised biography of the actress, written long after both Madhubala and Kishore Kumar had passed away. And the dead cannot defend themselves.
For once I won't sign off with "cheers".
--- Unni
Unni ji,
I too read Madhubala's biography and was quite disgusted with the author. He writes in the style of a sensationalist film magazine and is utterly unfit to be a biographer. He has done a similar job on Meena Kumari as well. It's easy to defile the dead, as you say.
Thanks for sharing this poignant anecdote.
I too read Madhubala's biography and was quite disgusted with the author. He writes in the style of a sensationalist film magazine and is utterly unfit to be a biographer. He has done a similar job on Meena Kumari as well. It's easy to defile the dead, as you say.
Thanks for sharing this poignant anecdote.
Rafi-sahab achieved what was probably his first big success with songs picturised on Bharat Bhushan ("Baiju Bawra").
The virtual starting point of Kishore-da's "re-birth" as a singer was marked by a song also picturised on Bharat Bhushan (Pyar ka Mausam).
Ironic!
The virtual starting point of Kishore-da's "re-birth" as a singer was marked by a song also picturised on Bharat Bhushan (Pyar ka Mausam).
Ironic!
None like KK barks:
Till I raised this issue on the 23rd April (!!) NO ONE in that forum had the slightest iota of decency to condemn that post. Then of course, came the hurried, reluctant policing. (So, I was definitely there, contrary to tall claims).
All this talk of 'holier than thou' behaviour is coming out of a person who had once started a topic on this esteemed KK forum demanding that 'yours truly' exit from HF (as if his ancestors own this forum). The reason for this unprovoked post?? A reaction to a debate in the KK vs. Rafi topic, where, before I stepped in, Rafi fans were having a field day insulting KK.
The moment some resistance was shown in that forum (a forum which was supposed to initiate healthy debates), the acrimony was immediately initiated in this hallowed KK forum with a lot of avoidable words & phrases. I have no problems in giving it back as good as I get but when it comes to this hallowed forum of BBM, I'd rather back-track than have any acrimony. I have the same feeling for the MAS forum where, in my few posts, I've tried to maintain a decorum & decency which befits Mohd. Rafi. (I guess, only rationals debate. Fanatics are more comfortable slinging mud at all & sundry.)
And talking about mischevious elements, I remember the same member once declaring that 'it's pointless to compare Mohd. Rafi with anybody else. Kishore can be compared with Manna Dey, Mukesh or Kumar Sanu. (!!!!!!!!). If this isn't mischecious intent, I do not know what is??
And lastly, I've seen a lot of HUGELY knowledgable music fans whose most important trait is humility. I'm yet to come across a true fan of music who is 'proud of his know how' of music. This is because Indian Music is like a fathomless ocean and a truly kindered soul will understand it's true worth. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are 'proud' of their knowledge.
-kkbhakt.
P.S. I remember Mr. ROM (an extremely rational & knowledgable fan of music) once being addressed as 'CD ROM'. No rhyme or reason. An unprovoked attack at somebody who had a difference of opinion.
I really do not need to reply to this dude however I believe I need to expose the lies of this mischievous element who was the first to destroy the sancity of this forum. Please all visit link http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1499&st=25
I dont regard you anything....and surely not a KK fan. No true Rafi fan has ever insulted KK. Tell me how mank KK fans have bothered to send information about Rafisaab and I am always sending useful information about KK. Thus your sick accusations are just a motivation of your frustation. And please stop writing Rafi bhakt at end of your mails it makes me sick. We do not want Rafibakts like you.
I wanted you out of the forum simply because you tarnised this forum. I even tried to chanhe my opinion towards you but I guess my first opinion about you was the right one.
And do not bring rom in the picture. Yes I did call him CD rom and it was is jest and we are getting well of late. Lastly you have voluntered several times to leave the forum. Me telling you to leave was just reminding you of your promise.
And kindly do not write to me in the future and if any true KK fans want anu explianation about any of my past mails then send me a direct message.
Lastly let me say KK is a class act and I have being his fan for a very long time. me saying that Rafisaab is the greatest singer takes nothing away of the contribution of other greats.
Till I raised this issue on the 23rd April (!!) NO ONE in that forum had the slightest iota of decency to condemn that post. Then of course, came the hurried, reluctant policing. (So, I was definitely there, contrary to tall claims).
All this talk of 'holier than thou' behaviour is coming out of a person who had once started a topic on this esteemed KK forum demanding that 'yours truly' exit from HF (as if his ancestors own this forum). The reason for this unprovoked post?? A reaction to a debate in the KK vs. Rafi topic, where, before I stepped in, Rafi fans were having a field day insulting KK.
The moment some resistance was shown in that forum (a forum which was supposed to initiate healthy debates), the acrimony was immediately initiated in this hallowed KK forum with a lot of avoidable words & phrases. I have no problems in giving it back as good as I get but when it comes to this hallowed forum of BBM, I'd rather back-track than have any acrimony. I have the same feeling for the MAS forum where, in my few posts, I've tried to maintain a decorum & decency which befits Mohd. Rafi. (I guess, only rationals debate. Fanatics are more comfortable slinging mud at all & sundry.)
And talking about mischevious elements, I remember the same member once declaring that 'it's pointless to compare Mohd. Rafi with anybody else. Kishore can be compared with Manna Dey, Mukesh or Kumar Sanu. (!!!!!!!!). If this isn't mischecious intent, I do not know what is??
And lastly, I've seen a lot of HUGELY knowledgable music fans whose most important trait is humility. I'm yet to come across a true fan of music who is 'proud of his know how' of music. This is because Indian Music is like a fathomless ocean and a truly kindered soul will understand it's true worth. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are 'proud' of their knowledge.
-kkbhakt.
P.S. I remember Mr. ROM (an extremely rational & knowledgable fan of music) once being addressed as 'CD ROM'. No rhyme or reason. An unprovoked attack at somebody who had a difference of opinion.
I really do not need to reply to this dude however I believe I need to expose the lies of this mischievous element who was the first to destroy the sancity of this forum. Please all visit link http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1499&st=25
I dont regard you anything....and surely not a KK fan. No true Rafi fan has ever insulted KK. Tell me how mank KK fans have bothered to send information about Rafisaab and I am always sending useful information about KK. Thus your sick accusations are just a motivation of your frustation. And please stop writing Rafi bhakt at end of your mails it makes me sick. We do not want Rafibakts like you.
I wanted you out of the forum simply because you tarnised this forum. I even tried to chanhe my opinion towards you but I guess my first opinion about you was the right one.
And do not bring rom in the picture. Yes I did call him CD rom and it was is jest and we are getting well of late. Lastly you have voluntered several times to leave the forum. Me telling you to leave was just reminding you of your promise.
And kindly do not write to me in the future and if any true KK fans want anu explianation about any of my past mails then send me a direct message.
Lastly let me say KK is a class act and I have being his fan for a very long time. me saying that Rafisaab is the greatest singer takes nothing away of the contribution of other greats.
| QUOTE (suhana_safar @ May 9 2004, 05:37 AM) |
| None like KK barks: |
May I remind you that the language that you use to communicate with your family is not suitable for a civilized forum like this?
All your ranting notwithstanding, you have not been able to refute any of my points of my last mail.
I too have absolutely no intention of trading blows with an unmusical humbugs like you (your spellings & grammer is the last straw!) but I will continue to rap your knuckles whenever you attempt to don a sheep's clothing.
-kkbhakt.
None like KK,
People like you normally do not know from where they have come. In other words go and find your family you sleazy piece of infected garbage.
Forget my knuckles think about your backside which is on your head.
Yuck.....what a waste of space.
People like you normally do not know from where they have come. In other words go and find your family you sleazy piece of infected garbage.
Forget my knuckles think about your backside which is on your head.
Yuck.....what a waste of space.
SS ji, I believe your wrote the following quote:
| QUOTE |
| Dear Rafians... Rafisaab was a very kind, softspoken and a modest human being besides being the greatest singer. Thus if anyone wishes to be a real Rafian the he/she must also have these traits otherwise you are just a fan who like Rafisaabs voice. |
And then this:
| QUOTE |
| None like KK, People like you normally do not know from where they have come. In other words go and find your family you sleazy piece of infected garbage. Forget my knuckles think about your backside which is on your head. Yuck.....what a waste of space. |
I have always believed that it's impossible for ideology and actual actions to match, and I think I see my belief yet again illustrated in your two quotes above.
I really wonder if it's worth being part of a place where discussions so often descend from sublime to the gutter.
I salute people like UKM, Shuklas, Pradeep, Nimi, Sharad, Chitralekha (and most others here) who love their music but to whom such hysterical ravings would be unthinkable.
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