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Hamara Forums _ Mohd Rafi _ What is the world coming to!

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 23 2003, 02:02 PM

Dear Pradeep,

Someone told me about this new group, named the 'Rafi Hater's Group'. I went over there and was relieved to see that there are currently only two other individuals who have joined the originator and thankfully, none of them has fallen so low as to make an actual post, even with a fake e-mail id.

The individual claims the right of free speech and estimates that there may be 10,000 of his/her type in India. Well, there are more than 10,000 donkeys in India too, who also express their right of free speech. With the right of free speech comes the greater responsibility of using that right wisely. Aadmi aur gadhe mein koi to fark hona chahiye.

What is the world coming to! It is sad to see that someone would claim to like Hindi film music and yet have such hatred for one of its most beloved artists.

The person also displays gross ignorance by stating that Rafi did not matter to Salil Chaudhary or R.D. Burman. We need not belabor the detail but at least a few of Salil's movies had a Rafi song at their center and the rocket of RDB's career arose with the enormous thrust of Rafi's voice. Before there was Kishore, there was Teesri Manzil.

Indifference against Rafi I can understand, a preference for Kishore Kumar I can also understand, but to go out and create a group with an explict objective of denigrating the great singer, even as infantile mischief, is indeed depraved.

I can only hope that I do not personally or impersonally (via the Web) know any of the three names that are currently members.

Engaging in heated debates about our favorite artists, trading barbs, even getting a bit personal at times is somewhat comprehensible. For most of the time at least, this is directed inwards, intended towards rooting for one's favorites.

But this outbound vitriol, against a person like Rafi, is disgusting. I feel sorry for the person who can think this way.

Perhaps Mohammed Rafi's benign and forgiving spirit will come to him (or her) and explain that this was indeed a shameful thing to do.

If any of these people have the courage to step out of the shadows and talk to me, I can be found at robinbhat2000@yahoo.com. I am waiting.

Please convey this note to MAS.

Regards...Robin

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 23 2003, 02:11 PM

Dear Robin,

Its really sad that RH creaters or co-founders have stooped so low. I wonder what has Rafi done to them. Rafi has always been exemplary and emblematic in all that he has done - professionally and personally. Nobody even media was unable to raise a finger over Rafi on anything unethical that is said and done. Its really crazy and sad that these guys have degraded themselves.

Pradeep

Posted by: zashakeel Oct 23 2003, 03:08 PM

QUOTE (Pradeep @ Oct 23 2003, 02:02 PM)

Dear Mr. Robin,

Following is the post I received in reply to my MEMBERSHIP to this group! please do not jump. I joined this group as a curiosity to find out what exactly is going in there. So I uploaded a file "Man Re Tu Kahe Na" Kishore da sang in the begining of one of his concert in his own voice. Thereafter the first thing I did is I leave the group, so the members now would be 2 only.

The e-mail address of the founder is <meghal_pandya@yahoo.com>

QUOTE

Dear Music Lover

There is no reason to imply that you should agree with my views.
However, this group is just my belief in freedom of expression. My
idea is as much important as any other person in world. There is no
reason that I should believe what other few million people believe. I
am just making my views public. The views that I never expressed
freely since almost last 10 years

My hatred towards Mohammed Rafi is not a sudden one. During the
DoorDarshan golden days, I used to enjoy any old Rafi song
in "Chitrahaar". I wasn't music conscious then. However, one fine
day, I listened to song "Mere Dil Mein Aaj Kya Hai" from "Daag", sung
by Kishore Kumar. And the song just swept of my feet. As time went
by, I got overwhelmed by Kishore Kumar's 70's creation, and at same
time dispelled towards Mohammed Rafi songs. Fast Forward to today,
when the internet made it possible to express my views publicly and
share it with you.

My outcry is towards a demi-god status given to him - "Rafi Saab".
Worse, Rafi rose to stardom at expense of Manna Dey, who was always a
better singer than him. Not to blame the music directors or the
producers who helped him rise due to public demand, while constantly
delegating the "comedian" or only "classical" songs to Manna Dey.
However, Manna Dey, with his vocal wizardry, turned any song into a
gem.

According to me, the most important trait an artist should possess
is "versatility". This is the factor that has made Pancham, Kishoreda
or Amitabh stalwarts in their field. An artist's "duty" is to excel
at whatever assignment given to him. Sadly Rafi could sing only some
routine type of songs. You can classify all of his songs in hardly 4-
5 categories. Compare that to Kishoreda, who could create different
voice and mood for different actors - Jeetendra or Sanjeev Kumar.
Listen to songs of Aandhi, and how well they blend with Haribhai's
voice, or Ab Ke Sawan Mein Jee Dare' from "Jaise Ko Taisa" & "O
Maajhi Re" from "Khushboo" - and how it blends with Jeetendra's voice
or "O Saathi Re" from "Muqaddar Ka Sikander", and how it perfectly
gels with Bachhan's voice

Compare Rafi with Manna Dey in "Tu Hai Mera Prem Devta"
from "Kalpana". Notice the difference in "Aaroh Avroh" of voice of MD
v/s MR. Manna Dey's voice is "Makhmali" compared to Rafi's "Straight"
voices.

Or, listen to song of "Tasveer Teri Dil Mein" from "Chhaya" composed
by Salilda and sung by Lata-Rafi. Lata herself confessed to be one of
her toughest song. Yet compare Lata's "aaroh avroh" in their song v/s
Rafi's "straight" pattern.

At most Rafi could do was yell, just like what Anupa Jalota does. I
know that is very harsh words to use, but I am talking in musical
terms, not in literal terms

Also, he got the company of mediocre music directors like OP Nayyar
or Shankar-Jaikishen during 60s, who churned out songs like tasty
dishes, depending upon what public ordered. Quality was supposed to
go down. Just compare any typical 60's music to the golden 50's or
the swinging 70s. The reason why people like 60's music may be more
due to the nostalgic feeling. The people who were kids or young
during 60s. Thanks to SD Burman who gifted us "Mere Sapnon Ki Rani"
with Kishore da. The time had certainly changed. Rafi was never seen
again. Only to appear in typical "southie" movies where Lakshmikant
Pyaarelal provided music. Kishore Kumar and RD Burman ruled. A deadly
combination that still rules my heart. A Bollywood gift to me that I
will never forget.

So if you also want to enjoy that feeling, do join my group and
participate actively. This group is not only aimed at Rafi-Bashing,
but any Bollywood-music related discussion. Preference will be given
to the 70's music, when Pancham & Kishoreda ruled. However, if you
don't want to join, but you know your friend or acquaintance, who has
same views like, pass on this message to him/her.

Regards,

Shakeel

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 23 2003, 04:29 PM

QUOTE (zashakeel @ Oct 23 2003, 09:38 AM)

The e-mail address of the founder is <meghal_pandya@yahoo.com>

I've seen or heard that name somewhere..... cant remember...

Posted by: iqbal Oct 23 2003, 04:32 PM

Is it ZAShakeel stating this group, in the earlier posts he had sent I thought he too was a Rafi fan.

Iqbal

Posted by: zashakeel Oct 23 2003, 05:05 PM

QUOTE (iqbal @ Oct 23 2003, 04:32 PM)

Is it ZAShakeel stating this group, in the earlier posts he had sent I thought he too was a Rafi fan.

Iqbal

Mr. Iqbal,

Don't misunterstand me, I am still RAFI FAN and not HATER, I joined the group to see what exactly what they are doing just for curiosity man. For your information i already left the group. I am a die-hare RAFIAN.

This is for your information.

Regards,

Shakeel

Posted by: iqbal Oct 23 2003, 05:29 PM

So was it not you who started the group ?

Regards
Iqbal

Posted by: zashakeel Oct 23 2003, 06:07 PM

QUOTE (iqbal @ Oct 23 2003, 05:29 PM)

So was it not you who started the group ?

Regards
Iqbal

Dear Iqbal,

Common man, how could I dare to do this. I already gave the e-mail add of the culprit who started this hatred group. I think you better read the whole mail which I sent already addressed to Mr. Robin, the misunderstanding will be vanished.

I found this group on internet, so I think let us enter to this to find out who is the mad person behind this, so unless I got the membership I was unable to find the name and e-mail address of the owner, so I applied for the membership and after 3 days of my application he approved mine membership. Within 10 minutes of getting membership I left that group with a note to the owner to stop / scrap the group.

I hope it is pretty clear now.

Regards,

Shakeel

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 23 2003, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (zashakeel @ Oct 23 2003, 12:37 PM)

membership. Within 10 minutes of getting membership I left that group with a note to the owner to stop / scrap the group.

Shakeel, you should have stayed there for couple of days more... and gotten his postal address. We all could have paid him a visit with more Rafi songs

Joke.e..e.e

Posted by: iqbal Oct 23 2003, 07:24 PM

Hi Shakeel,
Thanks for making things clear and apologies for not going thorugh all the messages.

Main Raahee Anjaan Raahon Ka
O Yaaron Mera Naam Anjaana

OR

Main Jat Yamla Pagla Diwaanaaaaaaaaaa

LOL

Regards
Iqbal

Posted by: Chitralekha Oct 23 2003, 11:33 PM

QUOTE (Pradeep @ Oct 23 2003, 04:29 PM)

QUOTE (zashakeel @ Oct 23 2003, 09:38 AM)

The e-mail address of the founder is <meghal_pandya@yahoo.com>

I've seen or heard that name somewhere..... cant remember...

What ridiculous kind of person is this?

Seems to me he/she has a grudge against Muslim people. You can see how he/she writes ill about Dilip Kumar on here http://meghal_bollywood.rediffblogs.com/ What a racist sicko! Seriously lacks GK and maturity, imho.

The name is also mentioned on panchamonline site. May be you saw it there, Pradeep ji.

Grrrrrrrrr
Chitralekha

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 23 2003, 11:51 PM

QUOTE (Chitralekha @ Oct 23 2003, 06:03 PM)

http://meghal_bollywood.rediffblogs.com/ What a racist sicko! Seriously lacks GK and maturity, imho.

The name is also mentioned on panchamonline site. May be you saw it there, Pradeep ji.

Yaa may be... saw it on pancham site.... or may be an email sent to mohdrafi.com

The url doesnt seem to work... or may be rediff has thrown him out...

Posted by: Sharad Oct 24 2003, 01:46 AM

Chitralekha ji, Pradeep ji, Shakeel ji everyone

This Meghal name i saw on pancham yahoo group
Now i remember for sure. He is or was a member of the RDB group at yahoo
and even there he said some things about Rafi like....
Rafi is overrated and he is maybe comparable to Kumar Sanu
and then he got blasted by other people for making this ludicrous statement

aah yes it's coming back
hmm maybe i can find that piece

i hope i rememberd the last name correctly

Sharad

Posted by: Sharad Oct 24 2003, 01:58 AM

Alright Folks, after some info digging
here is what I found...

quote

From: "Meghal Pandya" <meghal@r..
Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [Pancham] Mausam

Hi Jui

I do not want to make my opinions about Rafi public, or else I am sure I will be
kicked out of this group ()

But in nutshell, I belive (And so do many of my friends - and I hope many others
around the world) that he was an overrated singer just like Kumar Sanu. Or in
words of Ajit, a "pedestrian" or a "commoners" singer. For me, Manna Dey better
suits my tastes.

I cannot explain in details, but I have to show you personally the nuances,
which makes me make above statement. It is not possible to describe in words.

fyi, "Dil Dhoondhta Hai" was sung, bothy happy and sad version, by Bhupinder

Meghal

end Q

Dekh Lijiye

Sharad

Posted by: rehman_mh Oct 25 2003, 03:58 PM

Hi Mr. Robin,

Yes I am also bit anger to see your post that there is thousand of donkeys out there who does not know the what is the music is all about.

You are abosolutely right, there is RD+RAFI and Teesri Manjil before there ws Kishore Kumar. In terms of getting more songs from MD from mid 70s to mid 80s which is hardly 10 years and I beleive it does not matter at all to compare with Rafi Sahab's 30 + long years fine and dedicated contribution to the Hindi Film Industry. But, one thing why these people forgets that, when ever there was a tough song even in 70s, MD often had to call Rafi to sing that song such as Hathi Mera Sathi song " NAFRAT KI DUNIYA CHORE KE" and more same also for Amitabh Film like " NASEEB" who can forget that "JHON JANI JANARDAN" & CHAL MEER BHAI TERE HAT JHORTA HOO" and film MUKADDAR KA SIKANDA's last few lines of "O MUKADDAR KA SIKANDER" in late 70s?? all these songs are so pupular and still people love to hear again and again.

KK got more break due to Rajesh Kanna and Amitabh perticularly used KK more for their songs and reason I don't know.. it is may be they were biased to KK or may be Rafi Sahab has reduced to singing after mid 70s.

You know? I have a qeustion to those folks, why RAFI has sung the RAJESH KANNAN song for HATI MERA SHATI? Why MD thought that KK will not be fit for that song? b'coz "NAFRAT KI DUNIYA CHORE KE" song over shadowed KK's "CHAL CHAL MERA HAATI"

So, there was no question and doubt that RAFI was a kind of singer who can sing anything with ease and perfection that the audience has felt that HERO is singing the song himself and surely KK or other singer does not had that ability to modify their voice to fit with each of the individual here.

Any way, I fee sorry for them as they do not know the facts and figures and not going in to details to say something....

thnx.
Rehman

Posted by: zashakeel Oct 25 2003, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (iqbal @ Oct 23 2003, 07:24 PM)

Dear Iqbal,

Its OK, MISUNDERSTANDING happens every where.

HUWE HAIN TUM PE ASHIQ HUM
BHALA MANO BURA MANO

Take care n bbye.

MY WISHES TO ALL FELLOW MEMBERS ON THE OCCASSION OF DIWALI.

Regards,

Mohammed Z.A. Shakeel

Posted by: Pradeep Oct 25 2003, 05:44 PM

Kabhi Khud Pe, Kabhi Halaaat Pe Rona Aaya..
Baat Nikli Tho, Har Ek Baat Pe Rona Aaya..

Marne Ki Duvayen Kyon Maangu, Jeene Ki Tamanna Kaun Kare,
Yeh Duniya Ho Ya Voh Duniya, Ab Khwaish-e-duniya Kaun Kare?

Posted by: extenok Oct 25 2003, 06:19 PM

QUOTE (Pradeep @ Oct 23 2003, 02:02 PM)

...
The individual claims the right of free speech and estimates that there may be 10,000 of his/her type in India. Well, there are more than 10,000 donkeys in India too, who also express their right of free speech. With the right of free speech comes the greater responsibility of using that right wisely.

...but to go out and create a group with an explict objective of denigrating the great singer, even as infantile mischief, is indeed depraved.

But this outbound vitriol, against a person like Rafi, is disgusting. I feel sorry for the person who can think this way.

Perhaps Mohammed Rafi's benign and forgiving spirit will come to him (or her) and explain that this was indeed a shameful thing to do.
...
Regards...Robin

Maybe in a perverted usage of the right to free speech this person can exercise his right. But, I hope we as humble Rafians will not be agitated or offended by this person's misguided anger/hate.
I hope that the group's creater/owner/sole-active-participant seeks a more balanced out look towards Mohammad Rafi as a singer and as a person.

Posted by: zashakeel Oct 25 2003, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (Pradeep @ Oct 23 2003, 06:30 PM)

QUOTE (zashakeel @ Oct 23 2003, 12:37 PM)

membership. Within 10 minutes of getting membership I left that group with a note to the owner to stop / scrap the group.

Shakeel, you should have stayed there for couple of days more... and gotten his postal address. We all could have paid him a visit with more Rafi songs

Joke.e..e.e

Pradeep,

I think u r right, but I was feeling pretty guilty to be in that group. I hope KCP or similar name, I don't remember exactly (one of the group member either MAS or SKS) will help us in getting the address, coz I saw his name there in the member's list.

Regards,

Shakeel

Posted by: parekhashok Oct 25 2003, 09:06 PM

The appropriate name of the founder should be "Pagal" and not anything else!

Posted by: Flexible Oct 26 2003, 12:52 AM

What a truly pathetic bunch of no-hopers especially as their motives are so transparent.

They are so clueless as their following statement indicates "...Pancham and Salil Chowdhury are the only two music directors who have seldmoly used Rafi in their compositions...". In actual fact, as we Rafians know, Pancham did quite a lot work with Rafi not least as Pancham was Nasir Hussain's staple MD through the late 1960s and 70s. Needless to say Rafi had always been the regular voice in Nasir's films. Indeed, it was Nasir Hussain who gave Pancham his first big budget film, namely Teesri Manzil. The Rafi & Pancham combination was the highlight of the year and the song Aaja Aaja Main Hoon Pyar Tera created an absolute sensation which in turn helped Pancham to establish himself amongst the group of elite MDs. The rest is history but the relationship which was forged between Pancham, Rafi and Nasir went on to produce some fantastic songs in films such as Carvaan, Yaadon Ki Baaraat, Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin and Zamaane Ko Dikhana Hai amongst others. Additionally, there are many other songs, both before Mere Sapnon Ki Raani came along and after it, in which Pancham used Rafi to great effect as well.

With regards to Salil, my question would be - and no disrespect to him or his work - in how many films did he actually produce music? Furthermore, if one were to omit his contribution to HFM, would one lose a substanstial chunk of history concerning HFM? A highly talented MD he was no doubt, but not of much significance compared to others such as SJ, KA, LP, Naushad, Madan Mohan, Ravi, Roshan and SDB who all used Rafi regularly and indeed for some, in their estimation, no other singer was capable of singing their compositions. I presume these Rafiphobes are missing a whole chunk of HFM by ignoring Rafi as it would also mean closing one's mind to all the amazing compositions that were created during 1950s and 60s, music which formed the foundation for what followed thereafter. Their loss I would say.

These ghadde would've been better placed to have chosen Anil Biswas as their unrecruited mascot, as he is a MD who seldomly utilised Rafi's voice and indeed has openly said, in his opinion Rafi was not a good singer - actually his comments were more controversial, but quickly withdrawn after much of the HF industry came down on him like a ton of bricks. In their case though I doubt they've even heard of Biswas which is a likely indicator of both their age as well as their intelligence, the sum of which, I would wager, does not infringe into double figures.

The guy also makes some really crass comments regarding Yusuf Khan - adakaari ka baadshah as they say - it would normally make me laugh if it was not so indicative of his hatred of a particular minority group. This is especially as he does not seem to be able to accept the fact that members of that group can rise to the top of their professions. Two comments from the acting industry is all I will say in Yusuf's defence; firstly, Prithviraj Kapoor who after seeing a film of Yusuf's was reported to have said "Kash is ko dekh ke mera beta - Raj Kapoor - bhi kuchh seekh le". Secondly, Omar Shariff, who was one time asked who he thought was the greatest actor he had seen during a television interview. Without hesitation he said "Dilip Kumar". Yusuf is the king of subtlety, though I doubt this guy would even understand the meaning of the word let alone what it looks like when it is incorporated into acting.

Regards

Flex

Posted by: kcp Oct 26 2003, 07:04 PM

Yes

I had joined the group ( as some of the people here, did ) just to find out who the hell was the founder !!!

I left a message to the group owner to change the name and talk ONLY about his/her interests, which were the music of the 70's, RDB, KK...there was no point in keeping that groupname, which disgraced the legend..