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Posted by: extenok Aug 7 2004, 06:11 PM

A Review of Talat Mahmood in Concert
-Royal Albert Hall


Opinions/views expressed in this post are entirely my own, and are not to be construed as those of the site http://www.hamaraforums.com/. I am not a music critic in any way, not having received any sort of musical training or musical education. I come to you equipped with two good listening ears. I'm simply a humble fan of Talat Mahmood.



Getting a once in a lifetime chance of being in the presence of a legend is indeed an honour. And the honour doesn't come cheap. True fans of Talat sahab's work, haven't been perturbed by the costs of this http://www.talatmahmood.com/cd_offer.htm, which is being offered for the past few months now on his http://www.talatmahmood.com/. Talat sahab's son, Khalid Talat Mahmood, is kind enough to put up rare, famous & non-film songs, all free of cost on the http://www.talatmahmood.com/. This website http://www.talatmahmood.com/ probably receives visitors in the thousands, at least on a monthly basis. So, even after more than 35 years of his prime, Talat sahab's work is being appreciated, distributed, collected & revered by numerous fans throughout the world.

Related Websites:
Official Website- http://www.talatmahmood.com/
Order CD- Talat Mahmood In Concert, Royal Albert Hall- http://www.talatmahmood.com/cd_offer.htm



1. Hain Sabse Madhur Woh Geet Jinhein Ham Dard Ke Sur Mein Gaate Haen
Album- Patita
Year- 1953
M.D- Shankar Jaikishan
Lyrics- Shailendra
Duration- Original Version 3:55, Concert Version 3:47

I love Shankar Jaikishan's composition on the original song. My opinion has remained that live performances are more enjoyable if the artists can liven up the atmosphere. Fortunately or unfortunately for Talat sahab, his major share of popular songs are sad songs. This one not being an exception to that fact. The musical accompaniment's live performance sounds rather flat with some instruments missing, which reduces the general effect of the song. Maybe, if the singer took charge, this could've been a more powerful number. Talat sahab's live rendition is not very remarkable here. But, he does seem to try and break the mould at the end of the song. And, indeed, does receive thundering applause. So, maybe the effect of actually being at the concert is lost upon a listener.


2. Tasveer Tera Dil Mera Behla Na Sakay Gee
Album- Non Film
Year- 1944
M.D- Kamal Das Gupta
Lyrics- Faiyyaz Hashmi
Duration- Original 1944 Version ?:??, 1967's Version 3:13, Concert Version 3:25

This is not the first time for avid listeners of Talat sahab to listen to the combination of Faiyyaz Hasmi's words and Talat's voice. According to the official website, there have been fifteen other occasions when Faiyyaz Hashmi's words have been sung by Talat sahab. Some of the other Non-Film songs with these two and Kamal Dasgupta in the Music Director position are, Main Teri Chhabi Banaoonga, Sab Din Ek Saaman Nahin Tha, Soe Hue Hain Chand Aur Taare and Choudhvi Manzil Pe Zaalim Aagaya. Indeed, the combination is a good one. Lamenting his lover's absence, unable to be satisfied with a portrait of her, one hears touching lyrics as these,

Yeh Aankhein Haen Thehri Hui, Chanchal Woh Nigaahein
Yeh Haath Haen Sehmaye Hue, Aur Mast Woh Baahein
Parchaayein To Insaan Ke Kaam Aa Na Sakay Gee
Tasveer Teri Dil Mera Behla Na Sakay Gee

Talat mentions the popularity of this number saying, "Yeh gaana 1944 mein maine record kiya tha, aur aaj tak ussi tareekay se bik raha hae jaisay pehlay bika tha." When you listen to the concert version, vocally you won't feel a difference between the Talat sahab of 1967 and of that day. The only difference is in the first shaer that Talat sahab doesn't repeat for some reason,

(Mein Baat Karuun Ga To Yeh Khamosh Rahay Gee
Seenay Sae Laga Luun Ga To Yeh Kuch Na Kahay Gee) x1 in CONCERT, x2 in original
Aaraam Woh Kya Daegee, Jo Tarhpa Na Sakay Gee
Tasveer Teri Dil Mera Behla Na Sakay Gee

The audience applaud and whistle for an encore, Talat sahab replies saying, "Abhi buhat sae gaanay gaana hae, aur waqt bhi buhat zyaada nahi hae, to ek hee gaanay per gaarhi* atak gayee to buhat mushkil ho jaye gee..." and moves on to the next song.

*gaarhi- (car)


3. Mera Jeevan Saathi Bichad Gaya Lo Khatam Kahani Ho Gayee
Album- Babul
Year- 1950
M.D- Naushad
Lyrics- Shakeel Badayuni
Duration- Original Version 3:23, 1980's Version 3:41, Concert Version 3:27

If Naushad created the perfect tunes for the golden era of HFM, only Shakeel Badayuni could transcend the mental boundaries involved in penning lyrics that would do justice to Naushad's perfect creation. Sahir Ludhianvi and Majrooh Sultanpuri might've also contended for that position, yet one seems to feel that it was a different kind of magic altogether. The composition is gloomy & haunting, the words mesmerizing. Talat sahab's singing, doesn't necessarily shine out in the original number. In my opinion, Talat sahab has been able to put a lot more of his soulful voice, the misery and longing it epitomizes, in to the 80's version. The concert version, ranks below the 80's version, on my charts. Owing to this being a popular number, even with its shortcomings, I doubt that anyone would care. This song would be listened to just as diligently, like any other Talat song, by every faithful admirer.


4. Mera Pyaar Mujhe Lauta Do
Album- Non Film
Year- 1940s
M.D- V. Balsara
Lyrics- Sajjan
Duration- Original Version 3:10, Concert Version 3:57

An anecdote that I would want to pass onto the readers here, someone from the audience shouts, "Mera Pyaar Mujhe Lauta Do" and Talat sahab replies, "Mein abhi lautata huun aapko, wohi maine nikaala hae lautaanay ke liye. buhat sahi waqt pe aapnay maanga, chunaachay, wohi waapis lee jiye aap, mera pyaar mujhe lauta do". Talat sahab mentions the lyricist fondly here. While also telling the musicians that the music is a little loud.

The original song is enshrouded with layer upon layer of sadness thanks to the resonance of Talat sahab's voice touching a recognizable chord in our heart. The music is fairly simple and is not once let to overcome or overpower the song. The melody is only secondary infront of the magic of the singer. It is put in the background with Talat sahab's young voice being the main force carrying this song forward. Lyrics are not the forte of this song, yet somehow this seems as a trendsetting song. The emotions and sentiments have oft been repeated since then, by many a singers following Talat Sahab's times.
The live version for me ranks much above the original. The original song seemed calm and composed. The original captured the sound & a certain hidden texture of Talat Mahmood's voice that somehow resembles that of Mohammad Rafi of the initial days. The concert version is preferred over the studio version for the simple reason that it shows growth on part of Talat Sahab as a ghazal singer.
The sound rises to a high-pitch and creates a momentary unpleasant effect at the high note touched at the Mere Sapnon Ko Lauta Do portion of the song, a very minute error. Rest assured, there are no glitches after this minor setback. And Talat sahab seems at ease throughout the song.

Thukraanay Se Pehlay Mujhko Lauta Do Woh Preet Kee Baatein
Meri Hansi, Mastiyaan Meri, Lauta Do Woh Chaandni Raatein
Mere Sapnon Ko Lauta Do, Mera Tuuta Dil Lauta Do


5. Yeh Hawa Yeh Raat Yeh Chandni, Teri Ek Adaa Pe Nisaar Hae
Album- Sangdil
Year- 1952
M.D- Sajjad
Lyrics- Rajinder Krishan
Duration- Original Version 3:17, Concert Version 3:34

Sajjad Hussain used Talat only in a few movies besides Sangdil, namely, Preet Na Jaane, Shikwa and Rustam Sohrab. This song probably being the most famous out of all of the collaborations between the two. The lyricist Rajendra Krishan's beauty lay in the simplicity of his words. Here was a poet who didn't craft prose to explain situations based on complex philosophies. The underlying theme was never forgotten, and the lyrics were always on the mark. This ballad seems so beautiful even with its cliched lyrics.

Tujhe Kya Khabar Hai O Bekhabar, Teri Ek Nazar Mein Hae Kya Asar
Jo Ghazab Mein Aaye To Qaehar Hai, Jo Ho Meharbaan To Qaraar Hai
Mujhe Kyuun Na Ho Teri Aarzuu, Teri Justujuu Mein Bahaar Hai

Here is Talat sahab, taking the audience out for an enchanted trip on a pleasant moonlit evening, with the music accentuating the voice and the lyrics providing comforting support. The concert version for me doesn't stand out in any special way. A perennial classic which will be appreciated, nevertheless.


6. Humse Aaya Na Gaya, Tumse Bulaaya Na Gaya
Album- Dekh Kabira Roya
Year- 1957
M.D- Madan Mohan
Lyrics- Rajinder Krishan
Duration- Original Version 3:23, Concert Version 4:06

Strong melodious compositions were a hallmark of Madan Mohan. Rajinder Krishan's words strike a chord at every step. Talat sahab starts, falters for a moment, regains control and then beautifully carries the song forward. The music, as in the original, is given secondary importance. Talat sahab's voice & the wordings take centre stage.


7. Koi Nahi Mera Iss Dunya Mein, Aashiyaan Barbaad Hae
Album- Daag
Year- 1952
M.D- Shankar Jaikishan
Lyrics- Shailendra
Duration- Original Version 4:28, 1980's Version 3:03, Concert Version 2:52

A powerful song created by Shankar Jaikishan, for the lyrics, the imagery and the voice. Other hits of Talat Mahmood from this album were of course, Aye Mere Dil Kahin Aur Chal and Hum Dard Ke Maaron Ka. The song, Aye Mere Dil Kahin Aur Chal also features on this concert album. The original was like a roller coaster ride into pessimism, despair, hopelessness and misery. The lyrics, reminiscent of bitter-sweet realities of life that everyone of us has faced, at one point or another.
The original was almost 4 and a half minutes long. The concert version has been shortened to just 3 minutes. Talat sahab does not sing the following stanza,

Suukh Chukay Haen Aankhon Ke Jharnay, Luut Liya Humein Daagh-e-Jigar Ne
Phuul Nahi, Yeh Zakhm Khilay Haen, Aasmaan Sayyad Hae

The 1980's version sounds slightly better than the concert version. There is something about this classic melody that just doesn't show up in the live version. I don't claim to have a very distinguishing ear, so, my only thoughts on this would be that the music seems lacking. Talat sahab as usual, comes out sounding the same as he did on the 1980's version.


8. Itna Na Mujhse Tu Pyaar Barhaa
Album- Chhaaya
Year- 1961
M.D- Salil Chowdhry
Lyrics- Rajendra Krishan
Duration- Original Version 3:19, Concert Version 4:00

The lyrics of this song have a beautifully melancholic touch to them. Talat's voice in the original song comes streaming through with the purity and pathos of an unfortunate man, looking at his life realistically, with a crystal clear point of view. The cliched wordings of sad songs that might remind you of a more popular number by one of Talat's contemporaries are non-existent and simply don't apply in this case. In those days, sad songs got the royal treatment.
The live version, starts enthusiastically with the most easily recognizable tune. Though Talat sahab might be humming the words of the sad version, the music simply belies the sentiment. Both Talat sahab & the music, enthuse a strange energy in the audience with this rendition and the sounds of accompanying claps from the audience are clearly audible.
Talat sahab here does something rather astounding, adding a new twist to the famous song at the end, as under.

Mein Jhoom Raha Huun Masti Mein, Mehmaan Huun Teri Basti Mein -2
Ek Baar Gaya To Kisko Khabar, Ek Baar Gaya To Kisko Khabar,
Mein Aa Na Sakuun Phir Dobaarah, Itna Na Mujhse Tu Pyaar Barha

I might have been unfortunate enough not to hear this in the original recording, if it really was there, to begin with. Or simply, this is something new that was not available in the initial release. The original songs had two versions, one the solo, sad version sung by Talat Sahab. The other, a duet with Lata, which I'm not very fond of, simply for the reason of it being a happy-song, per se. This live version of Talat sahab's probably ranks very close to the original sad version for me. Talat sahab voice exudes energy on some level to make everyone sit up and take notice.


Continued in next post ...

Posted by: extenok Aug 7 2004, 06:16 PM

Continuation of A Review of Talat Mahmood in Concert
-Royal Albert Hall


9. Bechain Nazar Baetaab Jigar, Yeh Dil Hae Kisi Ka Deewana
Album- Yasmin
Year- 1955
M.D- C. Ramchander
Lyrics- Jan Nisar Akhtar
Duration- Original Version 3:52, 1980's Version 3:46, Concert Version 2:45

The song most reminscent of Talat sahab's velvety voice which all his true fans miss the most. The wonders of modern recording equipment have seemed useless, against Talat Sahab's voice deterioration due to old age. It is impossible to create the same magic that once existed in that quaint & very low-tech recording of this beautiful song by C. Ramchander back in 1955. For people hoping to relive their memories, the song might reawaken a faint wave of thoughts, feelings of years past. Yet, the 'baankpan' in Talat sahab's voice is simply missing. But, then, not everybody is looking for a studio replica of the song. The sound of experience simply flows through Talat sahab's vocals on this song. In the end, overall a good track.

Jab Raat Zara Shabnam Se Dhule, Lehrayee Hui, Woh Zulf Khulay
Nazron Se Nazar, Ek Bhaid Kahay, Dil Dil Se Kahay, Ek Afsaana

You listen to a humble show of enthusiasm from a few fans, in the form of some whistles, as the song starts. In my honest opinion, Talat sahab falls behind the Talat Mahmood of 1955. I could be wrong and this all could be attributed to me not realizing that there are a lot of things to consider when comparing a Live recording and a studio version of the same.


10. Raat Ne Kya Kya Khwaab Dikhaye
Album- Ek Gaun Ki Kahani
Year- 1957
M.D- Salil Chowdhury
Lyrics- Shailendra
Duration- Original Version 3:22, Concert Version 4:29

The lilting music infused with the despair-filled voice of Talat Mahmood. Salil Chowdhury might be blamed by some, unfairly, for using tunes by the legendary musicians. This I guess was probably for their music being a big influence on him and I ask, why shouldn't Mozart or Chopin be appreciated. What he can be blamed for, is instilling such sweetness into his songs that we fall for them every time. The words crafted for this gem by Shailendra are not phenomenal, yet, with the perfect blend of music & Talat's voice, it all seems to come into focus. I say one thing for this song, it is full of 'morbid-sweetness'. I believe, the best musicians are those who have discovered the secret of how to strike a balance between despair, anguish, hope and dreams.

Coming to the performance, the first encore in this live performance. Talat Sahab's performance is on the mark. No glitches in the recording. No bad notes. Talat sahab finishes the song and the audience replies with thunderous applause & whistles. Talat sahab blesses the audience with a repeat, murmuring, "Achha, sunniye" and finishes by repeating the following.

Ham Ne To Chaaha Bhuul Hii Jayein, Vo Afsaana Kyun Dohorayein
Dil Rah Rah Ke Yaad Dilaaye, Raat Ne Kya Kya Khvaab Dikhaaye

I would rank this on my personal favourites, above the original, only because of the last part. This also happens to be the last song of the first session, for the selected songs. After this, Talat sahab performed songs requested by the audience.


11. Tasveer Banata Huun, Tasveer Nahi Banti
Album- Baradari
Year- 1955
M.D- Nashaad
Lyrics- Khumar Barabankvi
Duration- Original Version 3:17, Concert Version 3:16

The original spoke truly of love, longing and hope in the words threaded together by Khumar Barabankvi. The composition fails to appeal. Though Talat Mahmood suits this song perfectly, we don't see any use of his range or the modulation in his voice that other Music Directors used.

Does the concert version sound any better than the 'sanitized' studio version?
No, not really. Talat Mahmood, is blamed for not experimenting in his performances, to change the song, making it more appealing to an audience
listening to it LIVE. To deviate from the expected norm was not a part of what Talat Mahmood was. This is just a fact that we have to accept. In his way, throughout this musical extravaganza, he has shown some different shades. And in the end, beauty will be appreciated in any form, be it its original or some other variegated form.


12. Jalte Hain Jiske Liye
Album- Sujata
Year- 1959
M.D- S. D. Burman
Lyrics- Majrooh
Duration- Popular Version 3:15, Extended Version 4:05, Concert Version 3:36

I always thought the original song was heart-wrenchingly painful, able to move one to tears. Listening to the live version, one feels the pure intensity and ecstasy that Talat sahab is still able to convey through a simple change in his intonation of a few words. The thunderous applause at the very recognition after the initial humming by Talat sahab is resonant of the importance this track holds in posterity. The way Talat sahab pauses, Haathon Se Yeh ... Chuutay Na Kahin show off skills of his ghazal singing, throughout the song. Majrooh Sultanpuri's juxtaposition of everything from the lover's mouth to the eyes to the heart & mind is flawless.
This song's concert version is the perfect example for people who want to know how Talat sahab sounded after his prime, yet still managing to capture the magic, enthralling his fans.


13. Zindagi Denewale Sunn
Album- Dil-e-Nadan
Year- 1953
M.D- Ghulam Mohammad
Lyrics- Shakeel Badayuni
Duration- Original Version 3:10, Concert Version 4:53

The words of Shakeel Badayuni spoke in volumes, not just here, but in everything he wrote for HFM and for non-film works. Ghulam Mohammad's tunes are blissful, simple yet alluring. This song makes Talat sahab flex his vocal chords, and believe me thats a blessing. Major portion of the concert doesn't make him do anything special. Most HFM buffs would know Talat sahab didn't get his fair share of difficult songs. I wish he had chosen that path and maybe we would've gotten to read & listen to a different history. In this lifetime at least, Talat sahab will be remembered as the soft velvet voiced wonder.

In the original version, Talat sahab doesn't touch the notes the same way he does in the concert. The concert version is where Talat Mahmood shines like a star going supernova, not necessarily with the negative connotations. The way Talat sahab stretches the note at the end of Zindaa Rakhaa Magar Zindagii Chhiin Lii is simply unheard of in any studio performance that I have had a chance to listen to. The second encore of the evening, brief as it maybe, draws a lot of applause from the audience, and well deserved too.

Bekhataa Tuune Mujhse Khushii Chhiin Lii, Zindaa Rakhaa Magar Zindagii Chhiin Lii
Kar Diyaa Dil Kaa Khuun, Chup Kahaan Tak Rahuun, Saaf Kyuun Naa Kahuun
Tuu Khushii Se Merii Darr Gayaa, Zindagii Dene Vaale Sun ...


14. Aye Mere Dil Kahin Aur Chal
Album- Daag
Year- 1952
M.D- Shankar Jaikishan
Lyrics- Shailendra
Duration- Original Version 3:00, Concert Version 3:14

In one word, upbeat. The live version is a little faster than the original. Talat sahab, though sounding a little mellow and subdued on some tracks, seems surprisingly lively on this track. Maybe it has to do with the history that this track has for him or he just favoured to make use of the tune and play around with it. Talat sahab was still at the prime of his career when this song became a hit. Mohammad Rafi hadn't unsettled the market and Talat sahab reigned over the HFM as the tragedy ghazal king. Nevertheless, even after so many years, the energy shines through in this recording.


15. Meri Yaad Mein
Album- Madhosh
Year- 1951
M.D- Madan Mohan
Lyrics- Raja Mehdi Ali Khan
Duration- Original Version 2:52, Concert Version 2:52

Madan Mohan had a pleasantly sophisticated taste for music. In retrospect, he seemed the perfect musical partner to the calm & equally sophisticated Talat Mahmood. His association with Lata Mangeshkar was on a different level altogether, Madan Mohan asked for perfection on female vocals & only Lata delivered it for him. Getting back to the song, it was created back when Madan Mohan was still struggling as a music director and hadn't been crowned the 'Ghazal Prince/Shehzada-e-Ghazal’. The beautiful composition speaks in volumes for the perfect convergence of music, mind & soul into one song. The faint yet astounding effect that is produced by the modulation in Talat's voice, Raja Mehdi's lyrics depicting the quintessential protagonist in the throes of heartbreak & betrayal. I wouldn't be lying if I say here that half of the popularity that this song has received is due to the excellent composition. Madan Mohan was able to recognize and effectively use the modulation in Talat's voice to his song's advantage. The original's beauty was in switching focus between the singer & the music, but without losing the charm of either or overshadowing one another. It was the perfect gelling together of the two.

The Live version doesn't fall very far from the original. Some might complain regarding the recreation of the music not being upto the mark, I would disagree. The same effects have been achieved in this version of the tune. The attention to detail is definitely there. The quaintness of the song is preserved even after such a long passage of time. Talat sahab's vocal performance is not very spectacular on this track. There is no noticeable display of him having a hard time. Yet, somehow, the energy, the conviction seems lacking.


16. Jhoome Re Neela Amber Jhoome
Album- Ek Gaun Ki Kahani
Year- 1957
M.D- Salil Chowdhury
Lyrics- Shailendra
Duration- Original Version 3:53, Concert Version 3:26

The original was a fast and peppy number. Talat sahab's last performance of the evening couldn't be a sad number, that would be just too conventional. This sounds most fitting, as the start was made on Patita's Hain Sabse Madhur Woh Geet Jinhein Ham Dard Ke Sur Mein Gaate Haen. The original song required Talat sahab to stretch the Jhoome Re part of the song, which he did excellently. He does it even better on the concert version and does receive approval from quite a few fans in the form of whistles. Good track, for the feel-good effect.



Related Websites:
Official Website- http://www.talatmahmood.com/
Order CD- Talat Mahmood In Concert, Royal Albert Hall- http://www.talatmahmood.com/cd_offer.htm
Internet Movie Database- http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0537027/
Musical Nirvana- http://www.musicalnirvana.com/ghazal/talat_mehmood.html
Songs at Music India Online- http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/s/?q=Talat%20Mahmood&c=0303
Songs at Hindi Film Music- http://www.hindifilmmusic.com/talat.htm
Songs at Indian Melody- http://www.indianmelody.com/talatmahmood.htm
Talat Mahmood Song Lyrics- http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/isongs/indexes/singer/talat_mehmood.html


All concert version times are approximates. The CD features the complete concert as one track. One complete track of uninterrupted gems by the Velvet Voiced Talat Mahmood. http://www.talatmahmood.com/cd_offer.htm


Written exclusively for http://www.hamaraforums.com/

Posted by: extenok Aug 7 2004, 09:02 PM

Adding samples of some live performances in http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3559.

3. Mera Jeevan Saathi- Babul- 1950- Naushad- Shakeel Badayuni- Duration- 1:03
5. Yeh Hawa Yeh Raat Sangdil- 1952- Sajjad- Rajinder Krishan- Duration- 0:50
8. Itna Na Mujhse Chhaaya- 1961- Salil Chowdhry- Rajendra Krishan- Duration- 1:48
10. Raat Ne Kya Kya Ek Gaun Ki Kahani- 1957- Salil Chowdhury- Shailendra- Duration- 0:58
13. Zindagi Denewale Sunn Dil-e-Nadan 1953- Ghulam Mohammad- Shakeel Badayuni- Duration- 1:20
14. Aye Mere Dil Daag- 1952- Shankar Jaikishan- Shailendra- Duration- 1:14

Posted by: cinemaniac2 Aug 7 2004, 09:52 PM

superb work boss.

u are a true fan.

TO ALL MUSIC LOVERS: NOTE THIS

U will get MR,KK,LM,AB,MK,MD,SK,HK,KLS & OTHERS copies,sound alike,clones,etc.

but never TM

He had a god given gift which can't be emulated.

Hear him you'll fall in love

cinemaniac2

Posted by: extenok Aug 7 2004, 10:01 PM

Very true.

CM, I suggest you try out the samples. And do share with us your thoughts on the review.

Posted by: billu Aug 7 2004, 11:13 PM

Posted by: Talaikya Aug 8 2004, 09:14 AM

Once again, I am in awe of true fans! I don't consider myself much of one precisely for this reason. Look at the interest you guys have to put in such painstaking efforts! I was looking for a "hats off" smiley, but found just a "glasses off one", so this one will have to be repeated ... seems like this is the only emotion I feel at HF! ad infinitum!

I don't have the liesure to go through your review in detail over this weekend Extenok ji, but I surely will over the next week. I did read most of part 1 but with too many distractions, I would like to peruse it with more time on my hands but... maybe in a week or two. I have heard most of the songs mentioned therein, I have most of them and I'll probably give them a listen while reading up your review.

I just had to respond to the effort that seems to have gone into it.... amazing!

T

Posted by: mohd2004 Aug 8 2004, 10:06 AM

Excellent review and thanks for the great effort. A treat for Talat Saab's fans.

Mohd.

Posted by: myawan Aug 8 2004, 11:46 AM

Imran you have done a great job to write this review so beautifully and I must admit that you have a lot of music sense even you didn't have any training (as you said). A very detailed review gives insight into Talat Mehmood's singing as well as his lifestyle.

Another thing that has been powerfully shown here that you are a true fan and being a true fan is also not something ordinary.

Congrats for the good work!

Posted by: extenok Aug 8 2004, 07:18 PM

I thank all of you, CM, BB, T, Mohd, Awan in taking time out to read the review and for appreciating it

As for the great effort Mohammad bhai, it was not for myself or for anyone else, just for Talat sahab.

Talaikya, I'll be waiting for your response when you're finished with the review, hopefully sooner than later.

Posted by: priya Aug 10 2004, 12:28 AM

Whhoooooooooooooooooooooo this is some review!!!!! It is almost like listening to the whole cd!!!! Maanna padega aapke dedication ko. Listening and collecting is one thing but to take this much time and effort to write something in honour of one's idol is just wonderful.
BTW why do u say u do not like the duet version of itna na mujhse tu simply because it is a happy song? Don't U like happy songs at all?
Priya

Posted by: extenok Aug 10 2004, 05:23 AM

Posted by: unni Aug 10 2004, 07:31 PM

Extenok's review of the CD of Talat-sahab's Live Performance is evidently a "labour of love".

What, IMHO, stood out in the review are characteristics that serve as valuable pointers for us.

Considerable thought and time and effort has gone into the preparation and drafting of the review. It was not dealt in an "off-handed" manner, merely to highlight the greatness of an artiste he venerates.

Of course, we all know that he is a particularly devoted fan of the legendary artiste. But nowhere does he splurge on superlatives. On the contrary, he has painstakingly compared the "live" version with the original recorded version and expressed his preference for one or the other, and the reasons why. As a result, we have a "balanced" and impartial review, one that I admire for its sincerity and credibility.

Unless he already had the information stored in his mind, extenok has taken the trouble to research each of the songs. Citing the names of the lyricists and music directors of the songs makes it particularly pertinent and informative for the readers.

Despite the length of the review, it is evident that he has crafted it meticulously, every word and line and paragraph. It becomes a sheer pleasure to read when the prose matches the feelings between the lines.

Uploading samples of the performance whetted the reader's appetite. At the same time extenok did not trespass into the twilight zone of ethics and copyright. Rather, his review is designed to instill in the reader's mind the desire to listen to the CD. And he has conspicuously painted arrows to the source.

That this "work" was done exclusively for HF deserves our sincere appreciation and gratitude. Personally, I feel the article is worthy of publication and I wish it gets greater exposure and wider circulation.

Having heard the CD, I can confidently state that there is nothing stated in the review that gives rise to doubt or question. In fact, I look forward to hearing the songs again with the aid of extenok's notes!

Posted by: priya Aug 11 2004, 12:32 AM

Posted by: unni Aug 11 2004, 06:07 AM

After conducting extensive research on this subect, I have come to the incontrovertible conclusion that the mood of the songs one listens to, is directly related to one's marital status.

A bachelor/bachelorette, living in a carefree world of blissful freedom, explores uncharted territory by embarking into a "fantasy-land" of sorrow, by listening to melancholic songs that express emotions and sentiments they have themselves never experienced.

Whereas, post-marriage, while enduring the rough and tumble of life, one seeks escapism by switching off reality and popping in a peppy CD.

As a happy-go-lucky bachelor I could afford to listen to "Ansoo bhari hai yeh jeevan ki raahen". Now, with a wife and two daughters, Eena, Meena, and Deeka, I need Kishore-da to resuscitate me.

Cheers!

Posted by: extenok Aug 11 2004, 06:39 AM

Unni, thank you for the kind words. Your support, & of some other silent admirers, is always appreciated & held in high-regard.

Priya, look at this, Unni finally cracked the code. I was afraid of this happening. And here we were, eligible bachelors/bachelorettes, seeming all sophisticated & interesting, and he comes in to burst our bubble.

Ok, coming to the point now, I also listen to happy songs, a LOT, but not of the HFM oldies variety. Some of the new ones, considering the current situations, almost all of them are happy songs. Plus, also pakistani pop music. I also must admit, I too enjoy listening & singing along to happy numbers, while going about ordinary chores.

As for Unni's theory, I believe it is applicable to some extent. But, also depends, on how a person is generally, his temparament, personality, outlook on life, etc. I'm not one to fuss over what has happened or what will happen. But, the beauty with which it is described in sad songs, is appealing to me. Call me one who's infatuated with pessimism, or one who's in love with the idea of despair & the ever-romantic-yet-failing-lover. Anyway you put it, I prefer sad songs over happy songs.
One interesting thing here, let us ask Unni whether his theory is still aplicable on him, when he's listening to Talat Mahmood songs.

Priya, your suggestion on Talat sahab's duets with Asha, is understandable. But I don't believe I have all of them. So, till that collection is completed, I can not think about discussing it.

P.S extenok: they were just two words that accidentally got written into the same messenger window (extend, ok) while talking to a friend. For some reason, I didn't forget the word, so ended up making a username out of it.

Posted by: anurag Aug 11 2004, 06:54 AM

Posted by: rom Aug 11 2004, 04:25 PM

Extenok,
Hats off to you, mate. I hadn't come across such a tremendous critique before on HF, and it was a pleasure to read it, start to end. It's obvious you've worked hard on the article, and that you are an amazing repository of knowledge about Talatsaab and the people who contributed to his songs. Like a true critic, you've recorded things as you heard and felt them, not as how you wanted to hear and feel.

You say "fortunately or unfortunately" most of his songs were sad, but I personally think that it was fortunate indeed. Dr Unni, having dissected pain and closely examined people's preference for sad songs, has reached an incontrovertible conclusion, so I won't say more on that matter, but it's a fact, as the poet said, that our sweetest songs are those that tell of saddest thoughts. I might only add that it was Talatsaab's great fortune to give voice to perhaps the best ever poetry that has graced our film music... and, of course, nothing encapsulates the pain and sadness of love, longing and separation better than Urdu poetry.

Your review also awakened my own memories of hearing of Talatsaab the first time in my life, in the 1970s or early 1980s, when a friend of my father's told him about hearing him in a concert.
To be honest, he wasn't much impressed with the concert; he declared that the great singer was past his prime. Perhaps he was expecting a little more lively time than he had. But then, Talatsaab is for the select connoisseurs of music and poetry.
I remember also watching his extended interview on Doordarshan in the 1980s. Such a remarkably handsome modest and gentle man. They showed a clipping from Sone Ki Chidiya in the interview, and that was also the first time I saw him as a young man on screen.

My own love for his sweet voice started with the song Jalte Hain Jiske Liye and I love all the songs this live CD contains, except for a couple that I haven't heard. It doesn't have the song that I listen to most often, Shaam-e-Gham Ki Kasam, which is an out-of-the world rendition... especially the lines "Dhoondati Hai Nazar Tu Kahan Hai Magar Dekhate Dekhate Aaya Aankhon Mein Gham"... simply breathtaking! (I'm always reminded, when I hear these lines, of Keats' "Do I wake or sleep?")

Finally, a great piece of work, Extenok, worthy of publication in magazines on music!

Posted by: extenok Aug 12 2004, 06:42 PM

rom,

Thank you for reading the article thoroughly and appreciating it. It was great to hear of your initial experience of Talat Sahab. And also comforting to know someone else who agrees with my opinion of Talat sahab being 'for the select connoisseurs of music and poetry'.

Believe me, my disappointment was same as yours, if not more, on not finding some of the songs that I hold a strong preference for, 'Shaam-e-Gham' included.

Just one correction, the shaer is, "Dhoondati Hai Nazar, Tu Kahan Hai Magar, Dekhate Dekhate Aaya Aankhon Mein Dum" not 'Gham'.
I know some websites might list it as 'Gham', others as 'Num', fact of the matter is that Talat sahab says 'Dum', I would suggest anyone with doubts to listen to it with their headphones on.
And the 'aankhon mein dam aana' phrase implies that his soul is about to leave his body, this is his last breath or alternatively, another translation could be that waiting and looking for his beloved has given him another lease on life, temporarily, at least.

Posted by: iqbal Aug 12 2004, 07:33 PM

An excellent article Extenok, a pleasurable read.

Posted by: rom Aug 12 2004, 08:00 PM

Posted by: unni Aug 12 2004, 08:06 PM

Extenok: "I do like happy songs. Just that, happy songs do not affect me as deeply as sad songs. Sad songs, I believe, bring more meaning to the whole picture. There is something magical and interesting about melancholy & despair; pining over something that is lost."

Priya: "Come to think of it I too have a preference for sad songs. But then some sad songs make one sad. While in others the grief is somehow so sublimated that it manages to uplift one--do i sound crazy?"

rom: ".....but it's a fact, as the poet said, that our sweetest songs are those that tell of saddest thoughts."

Leaving behind my frivolous discoveries, and to bring this discussion back on track:

It seems to be the consensus, at least among the few who participated in this topic, that the preference is for sad songs.

Strangely, I don't think of a song as "sad" even when it really is. What I notice is that sad songs, and even "across-the-board romantic songs" (e.g. "Ik shahanshah be banwakey haseen Taj Mahal" or "Do sitaron ka zameen par hai milan"), have greater appeal to me, for they are more melodious. As opposed to overtly happy songs.

Predominantly, my uploads of Kishore-da songs have been the melancholic ones. A Lata-ji song I never tire of hearing is "Aap ki nazron ne samjha". I have a marked preference for the serious/sad/romantic numbers of Rafi-sahab. Or when the otherwise vivacious Asha-ji renders "Meri baat rahi mere man me" and "Zindagi ke rang kayi re". Of course, Talat-sahab and Mukesh-ji are identified with heart-wrenching songs.

While I am listening to and enjoying such a song, someone might remark, "But it is so sad"! That thought doesn't quite strike me. My concentration is upon the lyrics (which are more poetic & eloquent in sad songs), the melody and the rendition.

Reluctantly, I am constrained to play "mast" songs when we have company. But then, that is quite unavoidable. They have reason enough to be sad with me in their midst!

Posted by: extenok Aug 12 2004, 08:52 PM

Unni, I wouldn't call your discoveries frivolous. Just that your cited reasons weren't applicable on the select few participants of the discussion. I assume you weren't here when I had touched upon the subject of sad songs initially. You can read my thoughts and others posts on the subject albeit brief, but in some ways they do add to the discussion, without actually making the situation any more clear.

I have also hinted about sad songs getting more attention and having a certain higher quality when compared to other tracks in the same movie. Maybe its just my ears playing tricks on me. You could probably, being more observant, expose some interesting aspect to this whole discussion.

In the end, you hit the nail right on the head, melody is the key! And I guess, you've more or less proved my point by stating in the end, "My concentration is upon the lyrics (which are more poetic & eloquent in sad songs), the melody and the rendition".

Surprising, I also just love Lata's "Aap Ki Nazron Ne Samjha", rendered in Raag Darbari, amazing!

http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=310
http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=310

Posted by: cinemaniac2 Aug 12 2004, 11:09 PM

hey i love this.

u guys are going deep in this lyrics.

ok. here is my poser

song - sab kuch loota ke hosh mein -ek saal

1)"khud hi laga ke aag TAMASHA HI BAN GAYE"=Became a spectacle

2)"khud hi laga ke aag TAMASHAHI BAN GAYE"=Became a Spectator

cinemaniac2

Posted by: Talaikya Aug 13 2004, 09:05 AM

Posted by: extenok Aug 13 2004, 10:07 AM

Easy CM. Its the second option.

Posted by: anurag Aug 13 2004, 11:59 AM

Posted by: extenok Aug 14 2004, 01:55 PM

I think I've already mentioned why "sad songs are more melodic, hummable, lyrically strong and often rendered beautifully". You would know that I wholeheartedly agree with your view/opinion. But, since you might not have read that part, here goes again. I am of the opinion that sad songs got more attention and "more thought & care" because their job was simply difficult. To make the viewer feel the pain and agony of defeat or heartbreak wasn't an easy job. Comparatively, yes, happiness is an easily identifiable state for the human heart & mind.

A very brilliant observation here Anu, two thumbs up.

Posted by: unni Aug 14 2004, 06:44 PM

While on the subject, I feel that in terms of happy/romantic songs, the lyricists are most inspired when they describe the beauty of the beloved or the poet's feelings towards the subject . Some random examples that come to mind are:

"Yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chaandni" (Talat)

"Husn waaley tera jawaab nahin" (Rafi)

"Roop tumhara ankhon se pee loon" (Manna Dey)

"Chaudhvin ka chaand ho" (Rafi)

"Tum jo hamaarey meet na hotay" (Mukesh)

"Chookar merey man ko, kiya toonay kya ishaara" (Kishore)

Such songs are more "descriptive" than happy in their nature, but very expressive and poetic in content.

Posted by: priya Aug 15 2004, 12:24 AM

Wow yeh to poora thread ban gaya happy/sad songs par!!!!
I think I agree with all of U. Sad songs stand out most often for the melody. Also have to agree with Anurag about the feelings of the youth and having no outlet to these. Also I think a lot more songs are made on sad situations than happy ones--I mean barring the romantic songs can we really say there are many happy songs? Maybe shaadi songs again associated with romance--so if one has not fallen in love I guess these can only produce a yearning But there are so many kinds of sad songs--the most common failure in love kind, songs on death and separation, the injustice of fate, the cruelty of life, songs of helplessness, poverty, mother's songs, songs of loneliness, on being jobless, homeless, away from home.... Matlab har situation ke liye kai gaane hai with which one can identify.
Personally I also think sometimes happiness is so heady it just carries one away and one is very involved in the moment--maybe one does not even listen to music at such a time!!! Because if I think deeply there are many happy songs which are as easily identifiable with--for eg sach hue sapne tere, jhoom le o man mere has that quality of walking on air, the fulfilment of young dreams, the first tatse of love--who cannot be carried away by that (of course all teh rest of u are men so pata nahi if U will feel the same)--then there is kyun mujhe itni khushi de di ki ghabarata hai dil--that feeling of bursting happiness tinged with fear that this is effervescent. (have never seen this picturised so can only say what the singing conjures up in my mind) Maybe human beings being what they are alos do not hold happiness that long in their hearts--our happy moments are less remembered wheras we tend to brood over and keep going back to our losses or failures. Sad songs can always strike a chord that way because we have all lost or missed something at some point of time.
We have mentioned melody and the tune--yes more often the sad songs have better tunes but lyrics too are a big factor--so often sad poignant songs have such beautiful poetry whearas the happy/comic/fun songs do not have much poetry and often have gibberish in them!! The beautiful romantic songs can take one to high ecstacy depending on the tune or make one sigh or feel a twinge at these lovely things that we only hear of but never experience.
Then as U all say individual temperament also plays a role. With me as Unni mentioned while listening to sad songs I do not always necessarily feel sad. The old songs especially could elevate grief with the poetry, music and soulful singing to an aesthetic level.
As usual when making a long post I have written a whole lot of mixed stuff and have not made a point!
BTW Unni in all this maine apne matlab ki ek cheez dhoond li in Ur post---mnetion of an Asha song Zindagi ke rang kayi re--yeh kaunsa gana hai? UL it pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee
P

Posted by: unni Aug 15 2004, 03:25 AM

BTW Unni in all this maine apne matlab ki ek cheez dhoond li in Ur post---mnetion of an Asha song Zindagi ke rang kayi re--yeh kaunsa gana hai? UL it pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee

Priya: The song from "AADMI AUR INSAAN". Surely you have it. Otherwise post me a message in the Asha forum or send me a PM.

Posted by: priya Aug 15 2004, 11:23 PM

Oh ya how silly of me --could not place it at that time. Ya I have the song.
P

Posted by: Nimii Aug 16 2004, 08:46 PM

Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxtenok!! maaaaaaaaaaafi de do I hadnt read ur review earlier

Bahut badiya likha hai aap ne.. Now I need to download some of the samples.. (kal subeh i will do the needful, when the naya bandwidth ka status patah chalega ).

I have most of the numbers.. ab I have to take out the mp3 cd I had picked up of KSL and TM recently, and see if I have all of these..

My fast paced favourite number is the duet with Lata. Solo mein, I love Raat ne kya kya khwaab dikhaaye.. beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IT is really ages since I heard a TM number (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( grrrrrr I should blame myself for lissening to radiocity which mostly hosts the recent trashy ones :EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

N E

ps: I shall write my side of write up for each of the samples ))))))))))))))))))))))))

Posted by: Nimii Aug 17 2004, 09:12 AM

Posted by: Chitralekha Aug 17 2004, 09:22 AM

Nimu, some songs are uploaded at URL http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=3844



This evening is for Talat songs.

Posted by: Nimii Aug 17 2004, 09:37 AM

Posted by: Sharad Aug 20 2004, 05:08 AM

Terrific job mr. extenok
i will print that out and show to my papa ji
he's a great big fan of talat mahmood also,, his fav singer!
marvelous
great
stupendous
remarkable job on sangeet ke sitaare by you

--Sharad

Posted by: extenok Aug 20 2004, 07:14 AM

Sharad,

Whats also very interesting is the fact that I'm only a few years older than you. And not some uncle jee in his 60s. So that probably speaks for Talats voice's charm & magic not just being restrained to the previous generation.
Let us know your father's thoughts.


Imran

Posted by: Chitralekha Aug 20 2004, 09:31 AM

Abhi itne saare logon ne itni taareef kee hai Imran sahab nariyel ke ped pe chadh ke baith gaye hai. Janaab neeche utarne ka irada hai ya nahin?

Bahot achha likha hai, kisi magazine ya akhbar mein bhi aap ka dakhila ho jaaye to kuch chaukne ki baat nahin hongi. Sachi mein bahot bade fan ho, lovely writing. Still have to listen to a few of the live versions but your comments are so great!

Abhi thode aur bhi geet hai jin pe aap ka abhipraay jaane to achha hoga. Yahan pe list denge aap ko, theek hai?

Keep up the good work thanks for sharing the great piece of work.

Posted by: extenok Aug 20 2004, 09:59 AM

Madam C,

It is always an effort on my part not to lose sight of humility and modesty. I try and keep my ego in check, most of the times. Still, if you do find me guilty of the sin, I shall try harder.
As for writing beautifully, I believe it has more to do with the songs and less with my usage of the english language. Thank you for reading and liking it.

I'm assuming the word 'abhipraay' means opinion. If that is the case, yes I wouldn't mind listening and going through other Talat Mahmood songs. Of course, even this exercise was just a conspiracy between me & Unni to bring our favourite artist's voice & his songs to the forefront. *Evil Grin*

Posted by: anurag Aug 20 2004, 12:04 PM

Posted by: Nimii Aug 20 2004, 12:09 PM

Posted by: anurag Aug 20 2004, 12:18 PM

Posted by: extenok Aug 20 2004, 12:18 PM

Nimii, sorry for the late reply. But, here goes nothing.


3. Mera Jeevan Saathi Bichad Gaya Lo Khatam Kahani Ho Gayee
N's comment: THIS ONE IS ABSOLUTELY NEW TO ME!! Wow he sounds great! grrr Imran puraa gaana kyon upload nahi kya

Uploading the whole song wouldn't have been ethically proper. I hope you've been able to enjoy the original, at least.


5. Yeh Hawa Yeh Raat Yeh Chandni, Teri Ek Adaa Pe Nisaar Hae
N's comment: O yes, you are right. I juz heard the whole song... Why o why do we not get such tunes any more

I think it has to do with the whole society's outlook on life and what they want to make of it has changed considerably over the years. A general wave of chaos has swept every facet of life. So how can we expect film music to stay the same. Surely, it is not the end. These storms brewing are probably just a warning sign of better things to come, or maybe they're just signalling the inevitable end. Still a lot remains to be seen.


6. Humse Aaya Na Gaya, Tumse Bulaaya Na Gaya
N's comment: Absolutely a stunning tune by MM sahab! But if you ask me Imraan, almost all songs of those days did not give music too much importance, as much as for the voice, that is why these voices remain forever in our memories! Atleast I feel that way.. I am just through listening to this, but plan to hear it again. What a beautiful song!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not entirely true. Some songs did receive more attention to their music. I believe Naushad's compositions specially received as much attention to their music as their vocals and lyrics. One interesting thing that I remember Abhijeet saying on The RKB show on Sahara TV recently was, nowadays, the music is 80% of the song, while the singer only gives 20%, because the singers of today simply cannot give more than that to the song. So, what we get to hear is more music and less vocals.


7. Koi Nahi Mera Iss Dunya Mein, Aashiyaan Barbaad Hae
N's comment - Mine is running 3:33 minutes. Wonder which version this is? Do you have the lyrics of the first 1 min where he sings without any music??

I have a total of 4 versions. The 4:28 version is from the Soundtrack. The 3:30 version is probably from the album. I've included lyrics for all four versions into a file and will attach it here once file-uploads become available again.


8. Itna Na Mujhse Tu Pyaar Barhaa
N's comment - typical Salilda music! I want to hear the sad version full version I have the happy one with LM Sample kaafi nahi Imran sahab I find the sample u have u/l does not sound sad

C has already uploaded the full sad version. I already had mentioned that the song's tempo was faster than the sad version and it didnt sound like the sad version. Instead it had the audience clapping to it.


9. Bechain Nazar Baetaab Jigar, Yeh Dil Hae Kisi Ka Deewana
N's comment: I just heard the original. From what you writes.. it does seem that age has affected his voice in the live show how sad. the original is awesome!

No doubts about it. Age had affected his singing voice. The original was a masterpiece.


10. Raat Ne Kya Kya Khwaab Dikhaye
N's comment: why over the original????? Wait let me hear the live sample!! Ok I am lissening to it.. Grr I cant handle the music esp the accordian is annoying Dont you think Talat sahab is singing this at a higher pitch in the live as compared to the original?? Or is it my ears

Over the original because I love the encore. Its different, its new. And for someone who hasn't seen one single live performance of the legend, this is as close as it gets. Yes, the accordion does sound annoying here. Maybe because we are used to hearing the mellow sounds of the old recordings. High pitch, maybe.


11. Tasveer Banata Huun, Tasveer Nahi Banti
N's comment - I dont think it is fair to blame Talat sahab. I am sure he had done justice to the song in the live as much as in the original. But at times the experimenting can really ruin the song.. I have heard many experimental ones.. I prefer the original any day mebbe I am very conservative here

Yes, you do seem very conservative. Still, what you fail to understand is that I'm appreciating Talat sahab's resolve not to experiment too much with the song.


12. Jalte Hain Jiske Liye
N's comment: WOW.. all the more reason I want to get this live album. Thanks Imran!!!!!!!!!!

Yes! A convert!


13. Zindagi Denewale Sunn
N's comment - From the sample u had u/l I find the live better than the original.

So do I, but then, from a conservatives perspective, you would staunchly support the original.


14. Aye Mere Dil Kahin Aur Chal
N's comment - I heard the original and the live sample. I concur with you here. He does sound very perky!!!!!!!!!

Must admit, the concert did have a few fast songs, even if they were original meant to be slow & sad numbers.


15. Meri Yaad Mein
N's comment - Why do u say quaintness???????????

Because I couldn't find my theasaurus.


16. Jhoome Re Neela Amber Jhoome
N's comment - Sample plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont have the original version either :|

I'll try and upload the original in Talat Mahmood gems thread.

Posted by: Nimii Aug 20 2004, 01:00 PM

Imran!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanx a lot for the response I really appreciate it

I agree with you regarding u/l of the live show! Must buy this album and I hope that the stupid Planet M/MW or Landmark shld have them

Issi bahaane I may be able to find more gems in the shop.. a few bucks parted from pocket money is no big deal considering the heavenly songs I shall get to hear and enjoy!

N

Posted by: Chitralekha Aug 20 2004, 08:33 PM

Posted by: unni Aug 21 2004, 08:27 AM

Posted by: Nimii Aug 21 2004, 08:32 AM

Posted by: unni Aug 21 2004, 08:43 AM

As it is I am being branded as an ogre on the lookout for unsuspecting victims on the web.

Koi baat nahin.

But watch out!. Unless Unni-chettan is kept busy with U/L's, he'll be expressing his "abhipraay" on everything under the sun. Whether required or not.

Posted by: Chitralekha Aug 21 2004, 07:44 PM

Posted by: anurag Aug 21 2004, 08:50 PM

Posted by: unni Aug 21 2004, 10:05 PM

Anurag:

Thanks for that research. I found it both interesting and useful.

(QUOTE) I suppose even though coming from Sanskrit (or, as some might say Sanskrutam) word, at some point in the past or in a period of time, local infractions took place that caused the meaning of the words to change. (UNQUOTE)

That is informative and gives cause for thought. It is quite possible and likely that the connotation/meaning of words (originally of Sanskrit origin) changed subtly over usage, particularly in the local context.

A word that comes to mind is "gambhir", again of Sanskrit origin. In Hindi it means "serious, solemn, profound". Whereas, in Malayalam, "gambhiram" denotes "great, grand, terrific".

A Hindi-speaker would describe Pt. Bhimsen Joshi's concert as "gambhir" whereas the Mallu would rave about an A. R. Rahman concert as "gambhiram" --- though the two shows have nothing in common!

Posted by: Nimii Aug 22 2004, 06:49 AM

Posted by: anurag Aug 22 2004, 03:26 PM

Posted by: Nimii Aug 22 2004, 03:31 PM

Posted by: priya Aug 22 2004, 05:04 PM

Posted by: unni Aug 22 2004, 05:50 PM

Posted by: priya Aug 22 2004, 06:57 PM

ROFL
Cannot imagine Dilip saab swinging from trees!!! Par aapko bhi maanna padega. Is there any situation which u have not envisioned with longing as set in Ur homeland?

Posted by: unni Aug 22 2004, 07:05 PM

Posted by: priya Aug 22 2004, 07:11 PM

Wrong on both counts Unni miyan. I was not the one thinking of a remix of Tarzan and Mughal-e-Azam.
Also I live in the present not in some atavistic haven
Waise the way the 2 of us are going on we must start a thread on animal songs or specific bandar gaane. Kya khayal hai?

Posted by: unni Aug 22 2004, 07:59 PM

"ATAVISTIC"?

I am now convinced that the site maintenance is doing us all a lot of good. In the absence of songs to upload/download, our worthy members are obviously seeking new avenues for exploration. Anurag, Chitra and Nimii have forayed into the realm of Linguistics. And Priya has been devouring the Dictionary, but stops at A, B (!).

Anyway, that is my avuncular surmise.

(Just had to use "avuncular" after that horrid "atavistic" was pulled on me).

Posted by: priya Aug 22 2004, 09:35 PM

Lol lol our avuncular uncle--has a nice assonant ring to it.

Posted by: unni Aug 22 2004, 10:42 PM

Shukar hai "assonant" kaha and not "asinine". Can we now move ahead. Enough of words starting with "as..."!

Posted by: priya Aug 22 2004, 11:19 PM

Posted by: Chitralekha Aug 23 2004, 12:36 AM

Posted by: vsv Aug 26 2004, 03:41 PM

The Music Director of Baradari is NOT Naushad but NASHAD who is supposed to have gone to Pakistan after few years in the Hindi Film Industry.

Posted by: extenok Aug 26 2004, 06:41 PM

vsv,

Thank you for reading so thoroughly. I can't recall how this happened. Maybe has to do with my not looking at the official source (www.talatmahmood.com). Probably I just checked on the internet for confirming the song information and not on the offiical site.

Anyway, appreciate the correction. Thank you.

Imran