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Is Slumdog Millionaire A Case Of Poverty Porn?

 
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> Is Slumdog Millionaire A Case Of Poverty Porn?
HumTum
post Feb 27 2009, 01:57 PM
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snake-charmers and elephants


I still love this part of our country! wub.gif
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HumTum
post Feb 27 2009, 02:01 PM
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A movie I would have recommended for foreign language Oscar awards would have been 'A Wednesday!' A movie perfect for all that is happening in our country. A thought provoking movie of what a common man can do!

Naseer-ud-din Shah bow.gif
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Sangeet
post Feb 27 2009, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE(oye_sonu @ Feb 27 2009, 01:05 PM) *

confusing wacko.gif . jab tak koi film na dekhe to comment karna mushkil . khud dekhni padegi film nahin to andhere mein teer chaalne wali baat hogi tongue1.gif
in lil hurry !
sonu


Exactly! You need to see the film to judge it. I don't think the film said modern day India is full of slums and poor people.

Yes HT, I think even though Taare was a beautiful film " A Wednesday" was more topical globally. But kya karen, Jury even sent Jeans to the academy.. compared to that Taare was infinately wise decision!!

This post has been edited by Sangeet: Feb 27 2009, 07:05 PM

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HumTum
post Feb 27 2009, 07:08 PM
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Jeans for Oscar!!!!!!!! planet.gif
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Marcilo
post Feb 27 2009, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE
hi
Parag bhai kuchh had tak aap theek keh rahe ho. Westerns hamesha kuchh hi topics ko touch karte hain jab India ki baat aati hai.


Sonu, This is what you said... I do not agree at all with this. You can give 1000 + points or 1 million negative points, that's not the point of my debate. My point is on what basis have you made this statement? Do you have any data to quantify your claim? How many movies were made on slums, I asked you the count too?
Have you taken into account making of "Gandhi" the movie when you made this statement?
Have you read the link I gave you? Here it is again

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/cont...gn_id=rss_daily

This post has been edited by Marcilo: Feb 27 2009, 08:31 PM

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Marcilo
post Feb 27 2009, 09:52 PM
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You will be asked to feel good about the alleged poor portrayal of India or Hinduism.

Where did this come from into our discussion?
Please do not get worked up. Its just a discussion.

This post has been edited by Marcilo: Feb 27 2009, 10:32 PM

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oye_sonu
post Feb 27 2009, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE(Marcilo @ Feb 27 2009, 08:29 PM) *

QUOTE
hi
Parag bhai kuchh had tak aap theek keh rahe ho. Westerns hamesha kuchh hi topics ko touch karte hain jab India ki baat aati hai.


Sonu, This is what you said... I do not agree at all with this. You can give 1000 + points or 1 million negative points, that's not the point of my debate. My point is on what basis have you made this statement? Do you have any data to quantify your claim? How many movies were made on slums, I asked you the count too?
Have you taken into account making of "Gandhi" the movie when you made this statement?
Have you read the link I gave you? Here it is again

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/cont...gn_id=rss_daily



Dubara se apni statement ko repeat kar raha hoon.
QUOTE

Parag bhai kuchh had tak aap theek keh rahe ho. .Westerns hamesha "kuchh hi topics"(not one ) ko touch karte hain jab India ki baat aati hai


Marcilo bhai maine +Ve points jayda kare honge...-ve kam. -ve bhi ek..ie...agar wakiye slum based hai to slum wali image banegi apni.

I have my own stand on every issue, so Iam not blindly following anyone or just to appease any frd or member.
Parag bhai had a point which I supported to "some extent" . "IF the movie" is based on slums it will effect Indian image ,as it is a landmark and very popular movie, future generations, movie libraries, etc all will stock and watch this movie and their image of india will be influenced by this movie. I stick to this stand even now !

Now read my statement above posts I said westerns have " few topics" not ONEwhen it comes to making movies on India( or 3rd world countries ). what was smile pinki about ? did you check The guru, the love guru or holy smoke or the city of joy etc
They rarely go beyond India of poors, cows or spirituality or maharajahs ( specially of Rajasthan !)
You show me other movies where they dared to take up good Indian issue for Western audience ?
(Iam not good in movies as I might have seen 1-2 movies in last 1 year on avg )

Bhaji I saw the link that you gave me. that was more about Indian _ US colloboration either in movie concpets or finances. Here we are talking about movies made exclusvely by Westerns for their audience. with theme on Indian like SDM. produced directed by Englishmen !

Iam yet to search the documentries they make on Buddhism, spirituality or kumbh or pushkar or the Red light areas of calcutta or the dibbawaalas , or how their aid is ustilised. Just two days ago Saw a documentry being made by japenese on one poor UP village which was producing taekawandoo champs.!!

(Even gandhi film had good glimpses of Indian poverty ! remember the scene of woman washing cloth underneath rail bridge ? But Iam not complaining abt it. but just shared for info.)


open to corrections !


Sonu

This post has been edited by oye_sonu: Feb 27 2009, 11:16 PM

forgive me if I miss replying or reading ur post............bit busy :-( !
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oye_sonu
post Feb 27 2009, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE(Marcilo @ Feb 27 2009, 09:52 PM) *

QUOTE
You will be asked to feel good about the alleged poor portrayal of India or Hinduism.

Where did this come from into our discussion?




Parag bhai......... kisi ne koi bhi relgious issue ko raise nahin kara hai. to kisi relgion ka naam lena theek nahin hoga.


Aur koi aisa galat bhi nahin likha hai kisi ne India ke against bhi. hum to just SDB ke case mein hi India ko discuss kar rahe hain. ki long run mein SDB kya image banaati hai India ki ? itna sa hi mera discussion ka point hai !



Sonu



forgive me if I miss replying or reading ur post............bit busy :-( !
Duniya ne kitna samjhaya, kaun hai apna kaun paraya
Phir bhi dil ki chot chhupa kar humne aapka dil behalya
Khud hi mar mitne ki ye zid hai hamaari......
sach hai duniya waalon hum hain anari !

......back to basics!!!

My artists :-
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This year we CELEBRATE 60 years of Shankar Jaikishan music . come join the celebrations !
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oye_sonu
post Feb 28 2009, 12:12 AM
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Just a General comment not against or fav.

People might not support SDM as poverty porn but all over the net people are posting similar comments


Google :

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q...earch&meta=


Had this thread started just after the movie release or befor BAFTA awards or even few weeks bfor oscars.......views might have been diff.

Oscars made a lot of diff in people's views. not many are complaining now !



Sonu

forgive me if I miss replying or reading ur post............bit busy :-( !
Duniya ne kitna samjhaya, kaun hai apna kaun paraya
Phir bhi dil ki chot chhupa kar humne aapka dil behalya
Khud hi mar mitne ki ye zid hai hamaari......
sach hai duniya waalon hum hain anari !

......back to basics!!!

My artists :-
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This year we CELEBRATE 60 years of Shankar Jaikishan music . come join the celebrations !
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Marcilo
post Feb 28 2009, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE
Dubara se apni statement ko repeat kar raha hoon.

Le… statement hi change karti hun tu laugh.gif laugh.gif . Few is a very relative term, you got to put baseline, now.. now you have done it with addition of "Not one". lokaan lai 1 million v few honda hai.

QUOTE
IF the movie" is based on slums it will effect Indian image ,as it is a landmark and very popular movie, future generations, movie libraries, etc all will stock and watch this movie and their image of india will be influenced by this movie. I stick to this stand even now !
No offence to you sonu, please. I have seen both the worlds, you are yet to see ground reality in this part of the world, so trust me it will not.

QUOTE
what was smile pinki about ? did you check The guru, the love guru or holy smoke or the city of joy etc They rarely go beyond India of poors, cows or spirituality or maharajahs ( specially of Rajasthan !)
Was pinki a movie or documentary? If it was documentary, leave that aside. You seen namesake? Wasn't that about Indians? Agreed living in USA. But movie was all about Indian culture. Remember first shot where they initially lived? That was a poor neighborhood and how they made it big later on. So if there are poor neighborhoods in USA, yes there are and people live there. Frankly, I am yet to see any slum here or yet to see people standing on the side of road to take a leak. So if that doesn't happen how are they going to show that?
QUOTE
Bhaji I saw the link that you gave me. that was more about Indian _ US colloboration either in movie concpets or finances
That is it laugh.gif , its all about money, SDM was made to make money not to flush money down the toilet. He thought it could sell so he made it.

QUOTE
Iam yet to search the documentries they make on Buddhism, spirituality or kumbh or pushkar or the Red light areas of calcutta or the dibbawaalas , or how their aid is ustilised.
Watch PBS or think TV, it's really nice channel.
QUOTE
Even gandhi film had good glimpses of Indian poverty
I have not seen SDM, but based on what I have read, they to showed how india progressed, call centers, BPO and all. But was poverty the Essence of Gandhi? Or essence was how one man brought british empire to knees with his "INDIAN" will? What was the essence? Do not just go by one scene here and there. If you do your argument on SDM will fall flat too.
QUOTE
with theme on Indian like SDM. produced directed by Englishmen !

Wasn't this adaption of a book? Written by an Indian? Why is that an Indian choose to write about slums? Why he could not write about DLF, or Raheja builders

Ok, here… If you not seen Sicko? Watch it. You will know more about poverty in America and how people suffer. It's not a movie nor is it documentary, it's right in between. not sure what to call it though. unsure.gif unsure.gif

This post has been edited by Marcilo: Feb 28 2009, 12:31 AM

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Marcilo
post Feb 28 2009, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE
People might not support SDM as poverty porn but all over the net people are posting similar comments


Everyone has right of opinion but saying movies that only show flashy buildings and hip culture of India, should be made, that is not right. Problem is if someone made movie which had all that, all these Ram sena guys will burn theater down. "too much of western culture"….. "not an Indian thingy" ... "Pubs are not in india culture"…."valentine day should never be celebrated",...so what is real Indian thingy? aab bechara Danny kare tau kayak are.. idher koovan .. udher khai.....


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oye_sonu
post Feb 28 2009, 01:00 AM
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Few is a very relative term, you got to put baseline, now.. now you have done it with addition of "Not one". lokaan lai 1 million v few honda hai.

Bhaji......".not one " add kara tha ki wahan per maine " kuchh " likha hai na ki ONE. iske liye.

CODE
No offence to you sonu, please. I have seen [color=#CC0000]both the worlds,[/color] you are yet to see ground reality in this part of the world, so trust me it will not.


Yes genuine point.I havent been there you could be right. but stil cant believe till Iam convinced by other facts or people.

QUOTE
Was pinki a movie or documentary? If it was documentary, leave that aside. You seen namesake? Wasn't that about Indians? Agreed living in USA. But movie was all about Indian culture. Remember first shot where they initially lived? That was a poor neighborhood and how they made it big later on. So if there are poor neighborhoods in USA, yes there are and people live there. Frankly, I am yet to see any slum here or yet to see people standing on the side of road to take a leak. So if that doesn't happen how are they going to show that?


Pinki a documentry on a poor girl. Namesake was by Mira nair. She is NRI thats why I didnt quoted any of the works by her or amritraj or merchant ivory productions or jag mandhura ( including bawandar ) else I would have added salam bombay or Missispi masala( fleeing ugandian indians ),kamsutra, bawander and few other by merchant ivory.

QUOTE
Bhaji I saw the link that you gave me. that was more about Indian _ US colloboration either in movie concpets or finances
That is it laugh.gif , its all about money, SDM was made to make money not to flush money down the toilet. He thought it could sell so he made it.
QUOTE

I felt you gave link of hollywood movies in India.



QUOTE
Iam yet to search the documentries they make on Buddhism, spirituality or kumbh or pushkar or the Red light areas of calcutta or the dibbawaalas , or how their aid is ustilised.
Watch PBS or think TV, it's really nice channel.

Dont know abt these channels. but I mean to say was the there are dozens of documentries made by foreigners on their fav subjects. including the above one.

QUOTE
But was poverty the Essence of Gandhi? Or essence was how one man brought british empire to knees with his "INDIAN" will? What was the essence? Do not just go by one scene here and there. If you do your argument on SDM will fall flat too.


I gave that example just for info knowing very well that Gandhi is not a poverty based movie. If their movies are solely for money I t hink no one shd care much for the essence of these movies


CODE
with theme on Indian like SDM. produced directed by Englishmen !
Wasn't this adaption of a book? Written by an Indian? Why is that an Indian choose to write about slums? Why he could not write about DLF, or Raheja builders


Indians in India usually write for indian audience unlike in case of SDM where foreigners took up the story to be shown to western countries. In india we take up any topic under earth where as they are selective when it comes to india !

good eg Ardh satya : om puri and samita patil are made to swim with their pigs in dirty waters. thank god no westerner cared to watch that movie tongue1.gif



Sonu

This post has been edited by oye_sonu: Feb 28 2009, 01:06 AM

forgive me if I miss replying or reading ur post............bit busy :-( !
Duniya ne kitna samjhaya, kaun hai apna kaun paraya
Phir bhi dil ki chot chhupa kar humne aapka dil behalya
Khud hi mar mitne ki ye zid hai hamaari......
sach hai duniya waalon hum hain anari !

......back to basics!!!

My artists :-
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This year we CELEBRATE 60 years of Shankar Jaikishan music . come join the celebrations !
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oye_sonu
post Feb 28 2009, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE(Marcilo @ Feb 28 2009, 12:30 AM) *

QUOTE
People might not support SDM as poverty porn but all over the net people are posting similar comments


Everyone has right of opinion but saying movies that only show flashy buildings and hip culture of India, should be made, that is not right. Problem is if someone made movie which had all that, all these Ram sena guys will burn theater down. "too much of western culture"….. "not an Indian thingy" ... "Pubs are not in india culture"…."valentine day should never be celebrated",...so what is real Indian thingy? aab bechara Danny kare tau kayak are.. idher koovan .. udher khai.....

tongue1.gif sahi kaha. dono taraf se fasega.

Waise spirituality per baneyga to kuchh nahin kehenge tongue1.gif


Sonu



forgive me if I miss replying or reading ur post............bit busy :-( !
Duniya ne kitna samjhaya, kaun hai apna kaun paraya
Phir bhi dil ki chot chhupa kar humne aapka dil behalya
Khud hi mar mitne ki ye zid hai hamaari......
sach hai duniya waalon hum hain anari !

......back to basics!!!

My artists :-
Shankar Jaikishan- Composers with magical touch !!

This year we CELEBRATE 60 years of Shankar Jaikishan music . come join the celebrations !
Join the SJ fans group for more information :
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/shankarjaikishan/

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mmuk2004
post Feb 28 2009, 01:13 AM
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QUOTE(Marcilo @ Feb 27 2009, 01:00 PM) *

QUOTE
People might not support SDM as poverty porn but all over the net people are posting similar comments


Everyone has right of opinion but saying movies that only show flashy buildings and hip culture of India, should be made, that is not right. Problem is if someone made movie which had all that, all these Ram sena guys will burn theater down. "too much of western culture"….. "not an Indian thingy" ... "Pubs are not in india culture"…."valentine day should never be celebrated",...so what is real Indian thingy? aab bechara Danny kare tau kayak are.. idher koovan .. udher khai.....


I agree with Marc...there are quite a few slides are happening here that make me uncomfortable. A few questions and thoughts:

Even if we assume that the film is about poverty, which, in my opinion, it is not, what are we arguing about?

1. Are we saying that the movie is only about poverty so we should protest/feel uncomfortable if foreigners make movies about India's poverty?

2. Are we saying it is all right if Indians make movies about India's poverty, but not right if foreigners make movies about India's poverty because they don't see/show the other side of India, or what India is all about.

3. Are we saying that if you are making a movie about poverty then you should show the other side also to balance the picture? (Indians and Foreigners?)

4. Are we saying that because a film about an Indian boy based in India, won so many oscars, it has a certain responsibility to show all aspects of India?

5. Are we saying that the director made the movie about poverty in India, because poverty sells? Did he anticipate that it would win big time at the oscars and hence just focussed on that?

6. In case we are not blaming the director for making a "one sided" movie, and incase we do take into account issues of artistic freedom, then are we blaming the Oscars for choosing it? Are we protesting that the Oscars went to the film because the selectors were fascinated with this aspect of India? So according to that logic, the oscar selectors are anti-Indian, or they look down or they stereotype Indians and hence chose this film to shower honors on.

Let us at least be clear in our minds about these questions because they represent complex issues that cannot be resolved very easily.

Sonu, I agree with your point that stereotyping happens, and in the case of India, and there has been an argument made about it being seen as the land of mendicants, mysticism and elephants etc. One can argue against this by saying that that image is very dated, modernization and globalization, see India occupying a very different position now in the 21st century than it did in the 20th. and though there are people who still might view India as this but they are a much smaller number and they need to be completely cut off from recent history to hold on to that view.

Secondly, we are talking about a movie about an Indian boy from the slums who makes it big, a movie that has an Indian/British Indian starcast and crew members directed by a Britisher that won 8 oscars. It does give the movie a visibility that other movies do not have. But does it make it a reference for those who do not know anything about India/want to know more about India? Well, my point is that that is not the director's problem. Why should he be held responsible? In my opinion, it is a fantasy, a cinderella tale, and if people choose to see it as a realistic representation of what India is then it is their problem and shorsightedness not the director's. Does the director claim that it is real or true to life? Why should the director compromise his or her artistic vision to tame a movie by being representative of all aspects of a country just because he happens to not belong to that country? Did he know that his movie would win big time at the Oscars?

The Oscars went to the film because the film was enjoyed by a huge foreign audience, there is no doubt about that. But let us give some credit to this "foreign" audience for being ready for "Indian"(read Bollywood) films, as they need a great deal of re-adjustment to enjoy something so different from theirs. I think we too need to re-adjust the way we look at the "western" world.

This post has been edited by mmuk2004: Feb 28 2009, 01:24 AM



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post Feb 28 2009, 01:25 AM
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Since I am being questioned on my stand, I would like to clarify a few things:

1) This topic does not have any relation to "Hinduism" but the member in question has in the past created controversies about it and made personal comments/attacks against me when I tried to put my views
2) The question is about mis-representation and stereotyping. No one can ask an artist as to what to do.
3) Since the majority is of the opinion that the movie does not malign India, I have withdrawn my stand. I have no say until I see the film myself
4) No harm was intended to any one during this discussion (even though some preferred to ridicule my opinion and some made personal attacks)


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