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What Is Sanskreet

 
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> What Is Sanskreet
sbfan
post Apr 29 2007, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE(bibhas @ Jan 10 2007, 08:02 PM) *

QUOTE(sbfan @ Jan 9 2007, 11:38 PM) *

Hi Friends

what are the recent developments for the question of Aryan Invasion. Plz answer in detail

regards
sbfan

sbfan,
Please refer to posts 48-58 on this thread and you'll be pretty much up to date. The final word is that there was never an Aryan invasion- we have archealogical, geographical and genetic evidence in support of this conclusion. The river Saraswathi, which was a major source of water apart from Sindhu (or Indus) nadi for the people of the Indus Valley Civilization (now referred to as the Saraswathi-Sindhu Valley Civilization), dried up over the course of time and this forced our ancestors to move further east in search of more fertile rivers.

QUOTE(visuja @ Jan 9 2007, 11:24 PM) *

Thanks bibhas smile.gif. a pdf file of the original PNAS article (or the complete article reference) would also be just fine biggrin.gif
USRafian's detailed article just a few posts below the link is also worth reading and is very informative.

Here you go Vivek: I am uploading the original PNAS article.



hI I JUST NOW READ THAT A LANGUAGE OF DRAVIDIAN FAMILY named Brahui is till spoken in baluchistan kalat aea . it is like tamil and shares the language. it proves that if aryan invasion not took place then how affinit between too south dravidian and remote pakistani language..??
please give ur views

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people
http://www.lmp.ucla.edu/Profile.aspx?LangID=207&menu=004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_language


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Mandrake
post Apr 30 2007, 07:23 AM
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lol...you guys are reading the story completely backwards tongue1.gif
It has been the biggest secret mis-propaganda campaign that's succeeded beyond belief!! tongue1.gif
Guys, think!! So the Aryans came from the back of the beyond, traversing different countries, winning everything in the way, swept through north India and....stopped short of conquering south India?? why?? Because they were unable? Or weakened? Or lost interest??

NO!! Because the story is read backwards!! It was the Dravidian invasion that happened!! tongue1.gif
The Dravidian race attacked the country from the south, and drove the ethnic Indians so far back that they fled to the back of the beyond! tongue1.gif
That will explain the whole story. Because the Dravidians were so war-smart, they always had escape routes ready. So they decided to stop at the level where the seas stopped, i.e. they did not move beyond south India.
However, the south being extremely fertile (as it is even today), it housed a very large population. When these people began crowding the north, there was an exodus beyond the boundaries of the then India (which included today's Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kyrgizstan, Turkmenistan, etc) tongue1.gif
Thus you can see similarities in languages, scripts, customs, traditions etc across all of north India, but there is a clear difference (no resemblence or even the opposite in the same things) in South India. tongue1.gif

Wake up guys, it is time to discuss the Dravidian Invasion! tongue1.gif

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Mandrake
post Apr 30 2007, 10:36 AM
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Just debating, Ummer, ok? smile1.gif Nothing more to my post than that, so everybody please forgive me if I appear to tread on somebody's toes inadvertantly. That is not the intention...
There is no valid scientific proof of the Aryan invasion too. There are just theories. And all this has been discussed on HF earlier too.
Just think, if the so called Aryans came from modern day Iran and wherever, isn't it logical that Iran and those other places should have a long and ancient tradition of our kind of rituals (I won't say Hindu, just Indian), and have a strong sanskrit base to everything?
Or is someone implying that they all came here, and got wiped out in their homelands?
That seems logically impossible.
And again, why did they not complete the conquer of the entire Indian subcontinent? Why stop halfway down?
Just debating, please...

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NATURE
post Apr 30 2007, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE(Mandrake @ Apr 30 2007, 08:23 AM) *

Wake up guys, it is time to discuss the Dravidian Invasion! tongue1.gif

hohoho !!! mandy, that's rocking man. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif i loved it.
but u know u have to provide evidence, otherwise u can't convice yrself too.

u know sometimes i don't believe in terms like aryan/dravidian and all. these were created just to
support their supremacy. western people believe in aryan invasion because it supports their supremacy. tongue1.gif
why on earth it is said everyone came from middle east, iran and all ? why not they went from asia ?
why not both came from a common civilization and one part moved to iran and middle east and other
part came here, the central asia, india and all ?

sorry i am not sentimental here but asking why it should be from somewhere near europe, why not asia ?
recently i heard veda was written in europe, sanskreet was created in europe. then they came to india
and it became part and parcel of indian culture. how justified all these are ?
i think it's the supremacy that all matters to the so called researchers. now a days it's rather pseudo science
than science.

now my theory says: ohmy.gif

there are 4 different civilizations who conquered and moved to different locations of earth and hence set
their own culture and community, philosophy, lifestyles, religion, music, costumes, technology, everything.

1. black african (if indian is belived to have come from middle east because there is a similarity then
why not dravidians could have come from africa because there is a similarity between skin colors ? tongue1.gif)

2. chinese/japanese roots (they don't match with middle east, african. neither they match with european)

3. europe/latin america

4. eastern ethnicity (it includes central asia, middle east etc. it may include dravidians
too but because of the place they have got a different skin color. biggrin.gif)

now these are the civilizations different from eachother. moved to saveral locations. other than these, everything
else is due to environment, weather, cultures created in several generations and blah blah.

mandy, who told u there's no similarity between north and south indians ? i think there are so many
similarities except skin color that too not ll south indians. kannada, andhra and north indians look quite alike.

Jo Milte hain, voh nahi milte
Aur Jo Nahi Milte, Vohin Vaastav mein milte hai
Kaaran jo hai, voh nahi hai
Aur jo nahi hai, vohin hai.
Ye keval Shabdo ki heraa-pheri nahi hai
Aur heraa-pheri hain bhi
Yehin Darshan hai
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Mandrake
post Apr 30 2007, 02:50 PM
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Nature!!! You are a man/woman/boy/girl after my own heart!! thumbs-up.gif
That's exactly what I feel. The researchers are always trying to paint everything in one colour. Even here, the 'proof' comes from American Journal and Stanford. The usual suspects laugh.gif
I too agree that India exported sanskrit, vedas and Aryans to the western world tongue1.gif
(Preet, where are you? I need more icons for 'tongue-in-cheek' biggrin.gif)
Aryans and Dravidians were co-existing peacefully in India till circa 10,500 BC. When they decided to expand territories, they initially tried to attack each other.
But they quickly realized how much they loved each other, and hence decided to go opposite ways for this task. For that, they did a combined Ashwamedh Yagna.
In an Ashwamedh Yagna, a horse in anointed with the holy things and let footloose. Wherever he goes, the warriors follow him. If any king tries to stop the horse from entering his kingdom, the warriors fight with him and conquer his kingdom. If he doesn't want to fight, he agrees to become their vassal.
The Aryan horse went northwest, while the Dravidian horse went Southeast. (Refer map in post #32).
Hey, this is getting interesting now biggrin.gif

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Ummer
post May 1 2007, 09:34 AM
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lol! I have deleted my posts. The debate has turned more into taunts and sarcasms than any useful discussion. The topic is closed from my side... laugh.gif

Oh by the way Mandrake, I didn't realize that you were just joking about Dravidian invasion theory tongue1.gif... (duh! on my part).
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NATURE
post May 1 2007, 12:42 PM
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mandy, i don't say these theories are wrong or just because they want to prove their supremacy.
i have no hard feeling against them but see the asian people or indian subcontinent or middle east,
they just take it granted that all those scientific discoveries are the truth and nothing but the truth.
why so ? many of them don't even analyse or read them properly.

no mandy, not every western people is like that. there are many who don't believe in aryan invasion
theory. in 1808 german scholar friedrich schlegel postulated that india is the source of the orginal language,
i think he meant "indo-european" languages which include "indo-iranian" languages too.

french scholar françois-marie arouet(voiltaire) said "It does not behove us, who were only savages
and barbarians when these Indian and Chinese peoples were civilized and learned, to dispute their
antiquity."
in 1790, linguistic william jones accepted the kinship of sanskrit with other european languages. to which
he says "both sanskrit and european languages have a common source which no longer exists".
i doubt on him here. he doesn't want to accept that sanskrit may be the source of all the languages,
but he can't prove that other european languages are the source of sanskrit because it may not be
logical. so he proposed his own theory just to deny the supremacy of sanskrit.
otherwise why should i accept that there is a common souce of these languages ? in fact it can be proved
that sanskrit is much older. i think voiltaire was not satisfied by jones' theory, that's why he said that line.
don't think i am adamant but i don't see enough logic to believe in what william jones said.

in some old iranian sacred texts, the battles in rig-veda are described. so scholars feel aryan came
from europe and middle east. why can't it happen that there were transportations of many kinds say
langauge, culture, science. so at that time they all knew about neighbouring countries ???
ofcourse it is a true fact that in centuries bc and also in medeval ages, arabian and people from middle
east came to indian subcontinent, stayed here. during that time, there was a tranfer of all kinds of skills
that's how a part of scientific knowledge and other technology tranfered to middle east and from them to
europe. (if u know the concept of zero(0) was tranfered from india to arab first and then to europe, may
be this is the reason why many european still believe zero was discovered by arabian scholars) ...

but there's no proof that whethere this was happened in thousands of years ago or not.
main problem is in civilizations like sumerian they have found written informations date back to 3100 bc,
whereas vedic knowledge was believed to have been transfered from generations to generations hence
no written info, so no one can support if there was no aryan invasion.

QUOTE(Ummer @ May 1 2007, 10:34 AM) *

lol! I have deleted my posts. The debate has turned more into taunts and sarcasms than any useful
discussion. The topic is closed from my side... laugh.gif

Oh by the way Mandrake, I didn't realize that you were just joking about Dravidian invasion theory tongue1.gif...
(duh! on my part).

taunts and sarcasms ? no man, i don't see. if you are talking about jokes by mandy then i guess this is
because he feels people just believe in such theories without even analysing the facts. and western
people don't want accept if india is the souce of there langauges. so they propose theories like that.
if you are talking about my posts, then it is just because i don't want to be so conventional ...

recent archeological discoveries has allowed scepticism at these theories: "harappa, mahenjo-daro,
mehrgarh" are just few examples. only problem is no text document is found. so all those we have
been reading from school days like aryan invasion, veda/sanskrit is not pure indian ...
or whatsoever are still believed and read. so let's analyse and increase our domain of knowledge,
the conclusion can be anything. let's stop taunts and sarcasms. smile.gif smile.gif

Jo Milte hain, voh nahi milte
Aur Jo Nahi Milte, Vohin Vaastav mein milte hai
Kaaran jo hai, voh nahi hai
Aur jo nahi hai, vohin hai.
Ye keval Shabdo ki heraa-pheri nahi hai
Aur heraa-pheri hain bhi
Yehin Darshan hai
Aur isi hone naa hone, milne naa milne ke beech mein
maayaa kaa samudra hai
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Mandrake
post May 1 2007, 02:53 PM
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Ummer, deepest apologies if I hurt you. I don't see any sarcasm or taunts in any of the posts here. And if you are referring to my posts, I admit they were completely tongue-in-cheek, but definitely not sarcastic or taunting.
We haven't interacted before, though you have come here a good month before I joined (unless you had a different id before). But if you refer to any of my posts anywhere on HF, you'll see that I am a big fan of history and discussions on that.
To tell you the truth, this so-called 'Dravidian Invasion' theory struck me just moments after I read your post.
I am a big one for taking diametrically opposite views, as I've always felt that such brain-storming often leads to surprising insights.
However, if I am becoming an unwitting bother, let me apologize sincerely and stop taking part in this discussion from here on.
I sincerely request you to continue the discussion with Nature (who's extremely well read) and others...
Sorry boss...mellow.gif

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Ummer
post May 2 2007, 10:52 AM
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Mandrake,

I think I shouldn't have used the word "Aryan invasion", the correct word would be "Aryan migration".

You were joking about Dravidian invasion, but do you know there is a theory on Dravidian invasion too. lol.

Yeah there is no evidence to support the theory either way, but I had something else in mind.

I was talking about different foreign empires which ruled India and neighboring countries... and the mixing of native indians with these people. There is more than enough evidence that it happened. Like the Makranis (African) of Balochistan - Pakistan do carry African genetic markers as they were bought to the area during African slave trade to the east.

Also the pictures of Kalasha people (which live in North Western Pakistan) which I have posted do have Greek ancestry (as the popular theory goes). It is said that after Alexander the great conquered Present day Pakistan, he got injured near Multan, and was never able to conquer present Day India. His army was already in mutinous state, therefore many of his soldiers decided to stay in that valley. Kalasha population is only around 6000 I think. So yeah, I was talking about different populations mixing with each other when they were part of different empires.
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Ummer
post May 2 2007, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE(Mandrake @ May 1 2007, 04:23 AM) *

Ummer, deepest apologies if I hurt you. I don't see any sarcasm or taunts in any of the posts here. And if you are referring to my posts, I admit they were completely tongue-in-cheek, but definitely not sarcastic or taunting.
We haven't interacted before, though you have come here a good month before I joined (unless you had a different id before). But if you refer to any of my posts anywhere on HF, you'll see that I am a big fan of history and discussions on that.
To tell you the truth, this so-called 'Dravidian Invasion' theory struck me just moments after I read your post.
I am a big one for taking diametrically opposite views, as I've always felt that such brain-storming often leads to surprising insights.
However, if I am becoming an unwitting bother, let me apologize sincerely and stop taking part in this discussion from here on.
I sincerely request you to continue the discussion with Nature (who's extremely well read) and others...
Sorry boss...mellow.gif


No no Mandrake, please dont apologize. lol! I think I misread you and nature. That is why I said in my previous post that I didn't even realize that you were joking about Dravidian invasion. tongue1.gif So no hard feelings on my side.

No, I never had a different id be4, I joined HF with the same id. Although I have read your thought provoking Blogs long time ago. smile.gif, the reason we never interacted before is that I mostly take part in Music/Film forums and that too ocassionally.
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Ummer
post May 2 2007, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE(NATURE @ May 1 2007, 02:12 AM) *

mandy, i don't say these theories are wrong or just because they want to prove their supremacy.
i have no hard feeling against them but see the asian people or indian subcontinent or middle east,
they just take it granted that all those scientific discoveries are the truth and nothing but the truth.
why so ? many of them don't even analyse or read them properly.


Nature,

The results which I posted were not about Aryan Invasion, sorry if I gave that impression. It is about the mixing of populations and people moving or migrating from one place to another (recent to distant past). It included the genetic tests on smaller ethnic groups like Makranis, Parsis, Hunzas, Kalashas and many others.
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sani_thakur
post May 4 2007, 11:23 AM
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Wow -- awesome discussion. Mandrake is absolutely right.

The Aryan invasion theory is completely wrong, and has been proven wrong. I had a fight with my History teacher here when he insisted that the theory is correct -- mad man - i got only a B for his course. mad.gif

By the way, talking about Sanskrit, even English owes its origin back to Sanskrit.

And another interesting thing -- the word "Vatican" comes from Sanskrit word "Vatika" -- which means school or teaching ground or perhaps garden ?? Something like that biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Mandrake @ Apr 29 2007, 09:53 PM) *

lol...you guys are reading the story completely backwards tongue1.gif
It has been the biggest secret mis-propaganda campaign that's succeeded beyond belief!! tongue1.gif
Guys, think!! So the Aryans came from the back of the beyond, traversing different countries, winning everything in the way, swept through north India and....stopped short of conquering south India?? why?? Because they were unable? Or weakened? Or lost interest??

NO!! Because the story is read backwards!! It was the Dravidian invasion that happened!! tongue1.gif
The Dravidian race attacked the country from the south, and drove the ethnic Indians so far back that they fled to the back of the beyond! tongue1.gif
That will explain the whole story. Because the Dravidians were so war-smart, they always had escape routes ready. So they decided to stop at the level where the seas stopped, i.e. they did not move beyond south India.
However, the south being extremely fertile (as it is even today), it housed a very large population. When these people began crowding the north, there was an exodus beyond the boundaries of the then India (which included today's Pakistan, Afghanistan, Kyrgizstan, Turkmenistan, etc) tongue1.gif
Thus you can see similarities in languages, scripts, customs, traditions etc across all of north India, but there is a clear difference (no resemblence or even the opposite in the same things) in South India. tongue1.gif

Wake up guys, it is time to discuss the Dravidian Invasion! tongue1.gif


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