Forum Title - Sur Mein Na Sahi, Is it right title for this lovely forum; need your pracious opinion Options

[OMkar]

He means, when we use terms like Singers, gayak or Idol, the focus is on the singers. He wants it the focus on the activity. So prefers mehfil, gaane, etc.

I actually feel the opposite. If we focus on the singers, they will at least feel happy abt it and might get inspired to do some activity.

Alright KRbhai, whatever it is! Lets now see the results of poll! We all like almost all the names; at least I like all the names we suggested here!!! And I vote for the one I like the MOST

[OMkar]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. What say Romeo (HT) ...........................

yeah ofc, Naam mein kya rakha hai!!! But we can not consider Hitler as icon of lover and Majnu as an icon of dictator!

[HumTum]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. What say Romeo (HT) ...........................

Azadbhai you mean to say we are going to have many roses singing for us here? That would be lovely.

[HumTum]

We not at all promoting any individual

or any site. Are we?

Any site? HT, I dont think I have ever promoted any other site here.. Rather I tell all my friends (personal and internet) to join HF as it is wonderful place to enjoy music!

Or is it eSnips? But I guess eSnips is somehow like Orkut and youtube.. And if eSnips was not allowed, HF wouldn't have allowed to post eSnips songs by setting some BB codes??

So I really donno why u feel that!!

The word 'promote' stirred the doubt in my mind. I was just double checking with the guidelines and I found that mentioning sites names to check out, can also spell trouble.

[HumTum]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. What say Romeo (HT) ...........................

yeah ofc, Naam mein kya rakha hai!!! But we can not consider Hitler as icon of lover and Majnu as an icon of dictator!

Anything is possible Omkarbhai. There is a Majnu in every dictator and there is a dictator in every Majnu.

[OMkar]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. What say Romeo (HT) ...........................

yeah ofc, Naam mein kya rakha hai!!! But we can not consider Hitler as icon of lover and Majnu as an icon of dictator!

Anything is possible Omkarbhai. There is a Majnu in every dictator and there is a dictator in every Majnu.

Arey yaar HT, Tu Baal Ki Khaal Mat Nikaal Yaar!!

[OMkar]

We not at all promoting any individual

or any site. Are we?

Any site? HT, I dont think I have ever promoted any other site here.. Rather I tell all my friends (personal and internet) to join HF as it is wonderful place to enjoy music!

Or is it eSnips? But I guess eSnips is somehow like Orkut and youtube.. And if eSnips was not allowed, HF wouldn't have allowed to post eSnips songs by setting some BB codes??

So I really donno why u feel that!!

The word 'promote' stirred the doubt in my mind. I was just double checking with the guidelines and I found that mentioning sites names to check out, can also spell trouble.

Did I mention any site name for anything??? Mentining eSnips for posting the songs especially for those who has problem with downloading the songs due to their ratios, was the main idea in case of eSnips!! And in that case even when someone post a song on any other external site is violation of rules?? CAAANFUSSS again!!

[HumTum]

Not you. I just remembered reading that word 'promote' and went to check the details bhai. No confusion --- let us wait for the poll results. --- This is like waiting for the election results.

Mentining eSnips for posting the songs especially for those who has problem with downloading the songs due to their ratios, was the main idea in case of eSnips!! And in that case even when someone post a song on any other external site is violation of rules?? CAAANFUSSS again!!

No I do not think so. If so by now I would have been history.

[OMkar]

Not you. I just remembered reading that word 'promote' and went to check the details bhai. No confusion --- let us wait for the poll results. --- This is like waiting for the election results.

Mentining eSnips for posting the songs especially for those who has problem with downloading the songs due to their ratios, was the main idea in case of eSnips!! And in that case even when someone post a song on any other external site is violation of rules?? CAAANFUSSS again!!

No I do not think so. If so by now I would have been history.

Haan yaar!!! waiting for Monday!! Monday is the last date, right?? Dekh main phir bhool gaya!!

[azad]

What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. What say Romeo (HT) ...........................

Azadbhai you mean to say we are going to have many roses singing for us here? That would be lovely.

Haven't heard any roses sing till now, but maybe this name change will be an attraction. Sit tight and hope for the best.

[Binod]

Friends:

Perhaps I did not or could not articulate my thoughts more properly. When we focus on persons, I agree that it would encourage them. On the flip side, however, it would inevitably result in embarassing inter-singer comparisons and the more diffident and less accomplished singers, who will actually be needing more of the encouragement, would be quietly making their ignominious exits, and the more accomplished singers, who really do not need to be told that they are good as they must have been told umpteen times even before they became HF members, would continue to dominate the scene. It is like helping the rich get richer through social policies. So instead of the subforum being a place where budding talents develops, it becomes an entertainment ground where alternative voices take over.

But in my opinion there are many places where aspiring voices can be tested. However, there are few places where mistakes are tolerated and feedback is provided freely and in an ungrudging manner to rookie singers. This does not mean that we should confine ourselves to only neophyte singers at the cost of some more promising singers. All I have said is that this subforum must be more of a place of learning rather than an entertainment center. Here we could even discuss chords, notations, taals/beats, and ragas of HF songs.

We have the legends which provide us superb quality entertainment elsewhere in HF. We do not need any poorer replication here. Activity focus, on the other hand, would level the playing field more for the lesser accomplished singers. Just my stray thoughts. You do not have to agree with them.

Thanks.

Binod.

[OMkar]

Friends:

Perhaps I did not or could not articulate my thoughts more properly. When we focus on persons, I agree that it would encourage them. On the flip side, however, it would inevitably result in embarassing inter-singer comparisons and the more diffident and less accomplished singers, who will actually be needing more of the encouragement, would be quietly making their ignominious exits, and the more accomplished singers, who really do not need to be told that they are good as they must have been told umpteen times even before they became HF members, would continue to dominate the scene. It is like helping the rich get richer through social policies. So instead of the subforum being a place where budding talents develops, it becomes an entertainment ground where alternative voices take over.

But in my opinion there are many places where aspiring voices can be tested. However, there are few places where mistakes are tolerated and feedback is provided freely and in an ungrudging manner to rookie singers. This does not mean that we should confine ourselves to only neophyte singers at the cost of some more promising singers. All I have said is that this subforum must be more of a place of learning rather than an entertainment center. Here we could even discuss chords, notations, taals/beats, and ragas of HF songs.

We have the legends which provide us superb quality entertainment elsewhere in HF. We do not need any poorer replication here. Activity focus, on the other hand, would level the playing field more for the lesser accomplished singers. Just my stray thoughts. You do not have to agree with them.

Thanks.

Binod.

Binodbhai, I really appreciate your thoughts. But many of us did not find the current title comfortable enough to post their songs. And I sincerely feel the suggested new titles are comfotable for all levels of singing talent. If you or anyone feel that forum is dominated by some group of people, then we can surely discuss such issues and sort them out. I really dont think anyone here is really interested showing their supremacy to each other. And really, definitely we are NOT as good as original; we are just Shaukeen Gayak thats all and WE ALL KNOW THAT VERY WELL, Binodbhai

And also in this forum, we would surely discuss on how to do the riyaaz, how to put emotions in the songs, chords, sur, taal, waves in the voice, notations, song recordings, share karaokes etc. I would love see ur contributions on such topics. So yes, this is not just a forum where one/ set of singers is/are are going to sing and dominate others.

Any other thoughts?

[Binod]

That is the spirit we want here as expressed by you Omkar Bhai. Change is something which most us desire. But let us not have a change which needs to be changed the very next day. So instead of rushing to decisions, it is always better to discuss more and if there is nothing more to discuss then wait a few days to ponder over new possibilities and incubate new ideas. So a thorough brainstorming is often desirable even if we come up with no better idea than the first idea that came to our minds. Then only will we feel that we did our homework properly.

People tend to gloss over debates and wind up discussion to move over to polls. Polls must, however, come only at the last stage, when it becomes too difficult to decide on our choice as the alternatives are too close to one another or so dissimilar that they are mirror images of one another. Sometimes in the discussion phase we have a clearly winning proposal and other options are not even worth examining. In such cases, we may not even need a poll. Please refer to my arguments against polls when one was conducted some months back to revisit the controversy about bitrates of uploads.

For me polls are like the football game that was decided on the basis of a disappointing plenty shootout. They rob me of the pleasure of crafting and presenting my arguments. If at all a poll is conducted competing proposals must be very much short listed. Otherwise, the voter will be greatly confused and may even vote with an undecided frame of mind. The list must not have similar items in the initial screening phase. For example do not have a list that says: crooners, singers, kala kendra, idols, vocal calisthenics, vocalists, listening, singing, gayaki, evaluation, feedback, mehfil, sharing, nightingales, exchanging, forum, manch, suno, riyaaz, gayaks, saregamapa, sur mandir, sur milan, manoranjan, artists, teaching & developing, guru kul, entertainment. I would preferably sort out the above list into three broad categories

Category I [vocalists, artists, composers, instrumentalists, singers, gayaks, idols, crooners, nightingales]
Category II [musical shrine, kala kendra, sur mandir, mehfil, manch, forum, guru kul]
Category III [vocal calisthenics, listening, evaluation, sharing, exchanging, sur milan, singing, crooning, feedback, saregamapa, manoranjan, entertainment, suno, riyaaz, chhedchhad].

Now each category must appropriately named or labeled. For example:
Category I [Performers]
Category II [Institution/Academy/Academe]
Category III [Activities/Engagements]

These are only examples. People can come up with better categories or even more categories. For example Category III can be subdivided into: A) Learning, B) Teaching, C) Performing, D) Entertaining, E) Communicating.

First there must be a poll to decide on what Category we would like to focus on. After this is decided we must decide whether we want a broad category name or whether we would like to examine at the subcategory level or individual items within the categories. Then we must choose an appropriate name for the final choice we made. Sometimes we can combine the categories and come up with for example the name “the Hamara Forum of Performing Artists.” This has all three categories encompassed within itself.

If we choose any of vocalists, gayaks, singers, crooners, or nightingales we would miss out the others. True we may not have many composers and lyricists but we do have a quite number of potential instrumentalists. We surely would not want to exclude them. Instead we could use more encompassing names such as “artists" or “performers.” If we feel that these names are too general we could add adjectives such as “musical.”

Just some more of my stray thoughts. Thanks for your patience.

Binod.

[OMkar]

That is the spirit we want here as expressed by you Omkar Bhai. Change is something which most us desire. But let us not have a change which needs to be changed the very next day. So instead of rushing to decisions, it is always better to discuss more and if there is nothing more to discuss then wait a few days to ponder over new possibilities and incubate new ideas. So a thorough brainstorming is often desirable even if we come up with no better idea than the first idea that came to our minds. Then only will we feel that we did our homework properly.

People tend to gloss over debates and wind up discussion to move over to polls. Polls must, however, come only at the last stage, when it becomes too difficult to decide on our choice as the alternatives are too close to one another or so dissimilar that they are mirror images of one another. Sometimes in the discussion phase we have a clearly winning proposal and other options are not even worth examining. In such cases, we may not even need a poll. Please refer to my arguments against polls when one was conducted some months back to revisit the controversy about bitrates of uploads.

For me polls are like the football game that was decided on the basis of a disappointing plenty shootout. They rob me of the pleasure of crafting and presenting my arguments. If at all a poll is conducted competing proposals must be very much short listed. Otherwise, the voter will be greatly confused and may even vote with an undecided frame of mind. The list must not have similar items in the initial screening phase. For example do not have a list that says: crooners, singers, kala kendra, idols, vocal calisthenics, vocalists, listening, singing, gayaki, evaluation, feedback, mehfil, sharing, nightingales, exchanging, forum, manch, suno, riyaaz, gayaks, saregamapa, sur mandir, sur milan, manoranjan, artists, teaching & developing, guru kul, entertainment. I would preferably sort out the above list into three broad categories

Category I [vocalists, artists, composers, instrumentalists, singers, gayaks, idols, crooners, nightingales]
Category II [musical shrine, kala kendra, sur mandir, mehfil, manch, forum, guru kul]
Category III [vocal calisthenics, listening, evaluation, sharing, exchanging, sur milan, singing, crooning, feedback, saregamapa, manoranjan, entertainment, suno, riyaaz, chhedchhad].

Now each category must appropriately named or labeled. For example:
Category I [Performers]
Category II [Institution/Academy/Academe]
Category III [Activities/Engagements]

These are only examples. People can come up with better categories or even more categories. For example Category III can be subdivided into: A) Learning, Teaching, C) Performing, D) Entertaining, E) Communicating.

First there must be a poll to decide on what Category we would like to focus on. After this is decided we must decide whether we want a broad category name or whether we would like to examine at the subcategory level or individual items within the categories. Then we must choose an appropriate name for the final choice we made. Sometimes we can combine the categories and come up with for example the name "the Hamara Forum of Performing Artists." This has all three categories encompassed within itself.

If we choose any of vocalists, gayaks, singers, crooners, or nightingales we would miss out the others. True we may not have many composers and lyricists but we do have a quite number of potential instrumentalists. We surely would not want to exclude them. Instead we could use more encompassing names such as "artists" or "performers." If we feel that these names are too general we could add adjectives such as "musical."

Just some more of my stray thoughts. Thanks for your patience.

Binod.

OMG, this is like a preparation for a completely dedicated web-site for upcoming singers or singing talent hunt. Development is a gradual process. And I think all these details can be used for the further development of this forum.

[HumTum]

Omkarbhai --- Most of us are beginners here. Some of us do not even know the nuances of singing or playing an instrument. Let us take a step at a time. Are we aiming for any target/goal here? I do not think so. It is basically an attempt to bring us together to be a part of a small gathering, who love to sing and enjoy discussing the music and possiblities in improving ourselves vis-a-vis in handling the singing or playing any instrument.

My suggestion would be, let it be a simple start. There is always room for improvement and changes, that can be added as and when the need arises. Let us not take big steps which may cause an hurdle for those who are shy to participate. Reaching out to some hidden talent can be one of the possible aims (i.e., if we are angling for any set targets).

Just my 2 cents.