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Urdu & Hindi

, Very Similair !

 
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> Urdu & Hindi, Very Similair !
Akhtar
post Nov 5 2004, 10:15 PM
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Hi,

Could anyone point out some oustanding differences in between these languages ? (doesnt inlcude writing the languages)
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unni
post Nov 5 2004, 11:27 PM
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Akhtar:

You've raised a very interesting point. I'm quoting an extract from the Preface to the 1992 edition of "URDU FOR PLEASURE - LUGHAT" by the late Sultan Nathani:

(QUOTE) Prior to Independence, the maximum number of journals and newspapers published in India were in the Urdu language. In the last 46 years Urdu has suffered a set-back due to continuous misgiving that Urdu is the language of Muslims. Urdu does not belong to any region or to any religion. It got developed by the natives speaking Brij Bhasha coming continuously in contact with Moghul army camps during their rule. The word 'Urdu' means 'Army camp'. This contact and communication between the natives of Northern India and Moghul soldiers developed into the Urdu language. It is not developed by any Pundits or Molvis. It is the people's language born in Delhi and purely an Indian language. No less a person than India's renowned journalist Khushwant Singh has said that Urdu is 'Kohinoor' among Indian languages. Today, it is the soul of the Indian film industry and the basic language for ghazals, film lyrics and stage performances.

The main hurdle with Urdu is that it is written in the Persian script. Today, the Persian script is definintely a foreign script for Indians and a divisive element in the way of national integration. During the 15th century, Persian was the script of Moghul Royalty.

There is no difference between Urdu and Hindi as they are gramatically similar. As a matter of fact, Muslims must demand that Urdu be taught in Hindi script in their own interest and also in national interest. Well-known poet Josh Malihabadi had personally expressed his opinion to me that in India, Urdu must adopt Hindi script in the interest of Urdu language and in national interest. Also, well-known poet Firaq Gorakhpuri and film-script writer Masoom Rahi Raza have publicly advocated that Urdu must be written in Hindi script in India. Hindi script would be the unification of two languages and spoken Urdu will remain pure and chaste as it is spoken now. The unification would require a minor change of adding 'Z' in the Hindi alphabet. (UNQUOTE)

If you stop trying to make sense of it all, you'll be less confused. Reality is an illusion.
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Akhtar
post Nov 6 2004, 04:08 PM
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Many thanks for that interesting insight.

Many of my good freinds speak, what they call 'Hindi', to me, and I find it to be a carbon copy of urdu.

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Ankur
post Nov 9 2004, 02:10 PM
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A similar doubt had occured to me while in school and I had asked my Hindi
teacher about it. He said that both these languages had evolved from a
language called Dakkani ( a spoken language on the Deccan plateau ).

The Moghul scholars gave this language the Persian script, while some
others gave it the Devanagri script ( i.e. the script used for Sanskrit ).
As the script changed the basic language diverged towards Persian
and Sanskrit forming Urdu and Hindi respectively.

There is little difference between the two languages but this difference is evident
when the pure versions of the languages are compared. What is generally spoken
however is a mix of both languages known as Hindustani.

QUOTE

The unification would require a minor change of adding 'Z' in the Hindi alphabet.



Well happy to say that z as in 'Naaz' can be written by adding a
dot below the 'ja' consonant in Hindi.


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surinder
post Dec 14 2004, 07:59 PM
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I know urdu is written from the right hindi is written from the left

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Bawra Jay
post Dec 15 2004, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE(unni @ Nov 5 2004, 01:57 PM)
Akhtar:

You've raised a very interesting point. I'm quoting an extract from the Preface to the 1992 edition of  "URDU FOR PLEASURE - LUGHAT" by the late Sultan Nathani:



I have one great book by this same author its something called Intekhaab Au Laughat.... maybe same book with new name and re-edition..... I have the 2000 version edition...... Excellent book , a quick reference library for all Urdu poetry / song lovers.....


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SAJJAD
post Dec 15 2004, 01:03 AM
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Sorry, i disagree! "Pure" Urdu is completely different then "Pure" hindi! In Urdu lang., there are tons of persian/arabic terms vs Hindi with Sanskrit. We (general public) speak a blend of hindi/urdu + regional slangs! Just read any urdu poetry and compare it with hindi poetry - they r totally different! Its not just in the written format!


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Bawra Jay
post Dec 15 2004, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE(Akhtar @ Nov 5 2004, 12:45 PM)
Hi,

Could anyone point out some oustanding differences in between these languages ? (doesnt inlcude writing the languages)
*



They both are descended from Sanskrit... or rather say there was literally no difference at a given time..... the difference was among the people coming from different parts or town of India before independence......

We all know or aware that how the roots of hindu - muslim or india-pakistan was sodded.... Here is from the chapters of history of India "In 19th century, the British insisted that the language of Muslim be entered as Urdu and the language of Hindus be entered as Hindi. The agitation over Nagri became a communal agitation. The Al-Bashir of 21 September 1901 pointed out that there was little distinction between Urdu and Hindi; the real difference was between the language spoken in towns and language spoken in the countryside. The Nagri agitation was to drag the language of refinement and culture into the morass of communal hatred."

Before British ... in the olden time most of the poets felt that they needed a language different than local dialect...something sort of superior form.... but even than Amir Khusro called it as "Rekhta"..... and not Urdu..... It was not before Mirza Ghalib ..... that it got popular as Urdu.... "Ameer Khusro is considered by some the first Urdu poet. At his time this language was used only for some poetry purpose and was called "Rekhta" not Urdu untill Mirza Ghalib's time. Ghalib was first Urdu prose writer in the form of letters to his friends. He called it "Urdu-e-Mu'alla" means superior Urdu to distinguish from the version spoken by masses."


The way is not in the sky, the way is in the heart. --Gautama Buddha
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aahat
post Dec 15 2004, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE(SAJJAD @ Dec 15 2004, 01:03 AM)
Sorry, i disagree! "Pure" Urdu is completely different then "Pure" hindi! In Urdu lang., there are tons of persian/arabic terms vs Hindi with Sanskrit. We (general public) speak a blend of hindi/urdu + regional slangs! Just read any urdu poetry and compare it with hindi poetry - they r totally different! Its not just in the written format!
*


I completely agree with Sajjad. Urdu, formerly called 'Rekhta', was a langauge born in the market! It was spoken mainly by Afghan soldires..., had lot of vocabulary from Arabic, Persian, Punjabi, among others. Mir Taqi Mir (the wrter of the famous ghazal, 'Faqiirana aaye sada kar chale') is credited with formalizing the langauge.

I found this info on Net, but that is certainly not too close to what I read earlier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urdu
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extenok
post Jan 13 2005, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE(SAJJAD @ Dec 15 2004, 01:03 AM)
Sorry, i disagree! "Pure" Urdu is completely different then "Pure" hindi! In Urdu lang., there are tons of persian/arabic terms vs Hindi with Sanskrit. We (general public) speak a blend of hindi/urdu + regional slangs! Just read any urdu poetry and compare it with hindi poetry - they r totally different! Its not just in the written format!
*



I agree with Sajjad on this one. Pure urdu is not what an average hindi-speaker gets to hear. The turkish/persian/arabic words in Urdu would boggle the hindi-speaker. Another addition that I would like to make here, 'Urdu' which means 'Army Camp' is a turkish word written as 'Ordu'.



zindagi ne kar diya, jab bhi udaas
aa gaye ghabra ke hum, manzil ke paas
sar jhukaaya, sar jhuka kar ro diye
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deep750
post Jul 7 2005, 04:40 AM
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as far as I know urdu became a "muslim language" beacuse it was the first Indian language the Koran was translated to, even though it had existed for ages. Urdu was at the startingpiont only a written language and not spoken, until the "muslimasation" of the language, and it approached languages as persian, arabic etc.
But is was also a official written language in india in the last period of english rule.

regarding spoken language, as earlier said, pure hindi and todays pure urdu are quite different languages.
But since both languages were used in the areas around Delhi, they borrowed words from each other so one easier could understand eachother.

the devanagri (hindi) alphabet does not have the sounds f, z and q.

they have later been made by addig dots beneath the most similar sounding characters. this implies that ALL hindi words that has the sounds of f, z and q are borrowed words.when one speaks hindi today, app. 30% of the words are borrowed.

Indias previous PM Vajpaye spoke quite pure hindi, which made (my guess) more then 70% of the public not understand what he said!
the hindi most peolple talk today is a mix of the languages hindi, urdu, punjabi, gujrati, marthi (and many other Indian languages) and english, and is also called hindustani instead of hindi, which I regard as a more correct name of the language...

so next time you try to speak in hindi try to change the "borrowed" words and you will probably be standing there with a bilingualk dictionary and looking for words.


hope this clearified some questions wink2.gif

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AzgarKhan
post Jul 7 2005, 05:33 AM
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Its sad that languages are associated with religions.
Lanuage is a tool for communication.



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fiftysomeone
post Jul 7 2005, 07:42 AM
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I remember as a graduate student in the US, some of my classmates from outside South Asia were quite intrigued by the languages spoken by students from India and Pakistan.
To such people, the (North) Indian woud say his native langiage was Hindi, the Pakistani woud say Urdu. Yet we woud talk fluently with each other, much to the amazement of the other nationalities.
One of them was even more surprised that I would speak with my Indian friends (from Chennai) in English but with the Pakistani in the same language (Hindi/Urdu)!
I also observed at that time that Hindi and Urdu are probably the only pair of languages in the world which sound almost identical yet are written completely differently - usually it's the other way around, same script but different sounds and vocabs.
Cheers.
50Some1
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deep750
post Jul 7 2005, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE(fiftysomeone @ Jul 7 2005, 03:12 AM)
I remember as a graduate student in the US, some of my classmates from outside South Asia were quite intrigued by the languages spoken by students from India and Pakistan.
To such people, the (North) Indian woud say his native langiage was Hindi, the Pakistani woud say Urdu. Yet we woud talk fluently with each other, much to the amazement of the other nationalities.
One of them was even more surprised that I would speak with my Indian friends (from Chennai) in English but with the Pakistani in the same language (Hindi/Urdu)!
I also observed at that time that Hindi and Urdu are probably the only pair of languages in the world which sound almost identical yet are written completely differently - usually it's the other way around, same script but different sounds and vocabs.
Cheers.
50Some1
*



as I said earlier the languages have borrowed vocabulary from each other, and are actually mixes of various indian languages and english.

to underline how urdu became a indian-"muslim" language can be understood when I tell you that in most parts of Pakistan, urdu was non-existing language prior to 1947.
in most parts of Pakistan, Sindhi was the most used language. but at the establishment of India and Pakistan they chose to have Hindi and Urdu respectively as their official languages, even though urdu probably was more widespread in Delhi at that time and Sindhi in most parts of Pakistan.

Even in Punjab (India), urdu was the major written language in some parts.
You can probably confirm this through you parents or grandparents...

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NATURE
post Jul 13 2005, 02:57 PM
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Yeah u r rite. Urdu was accepted as the major official Language in India, when British came
To India they realised how urdu was spreading, so they chose it as official Language. Urdu is
Known to be very Artistic Language, but it's not very independent like other Langs. It
used the words of Parsian, Arabic and also the words/Grammer of Hindi. That's why Hindi and
Urdu match eachother. Urdu was started developing during the times of Moghal(Babar - Akbar)
Mainly in South India .... So Urdu is the Language of India and not any other Country but Indian
Islamic Culture(mainly) is the 1 who was there behind its creation .....

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