Argue!, Philosophy Corner Options

[IDOL]

Hi Frienderallas!



argue over the topics:

• God and Science
• To what extend to follow law? (Socrates Trial & Law)
• Why we are in this world?
• What should we do in this world?
• Do you believe in mirecles?

choose any of the above..........argue with reasoning............and i am your instructor to watch and record .........besides, i will take part in arguing too

PS. the arguement here is intended for educational purpose....the core is not the topic, BUT the way of arguing (Premises, Conclusion, Argument)..in case, it might hurt anyone's feeling, i appologize in advance

[IDOL]

ayooo, no one yet...........c'mon ......priya where are u.........let's start this conversation............i get help with my philosophy class meanwhile

[Nimii]

Do you believe in miracles?

Yes I do !

[myawan]

God and Science

Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries.

Why we are in this world?

God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM.

What should we do in this world?

read my last para.

Do you believe in mirecles?

Yes!


Please argue if you don't agree........tell me your objections on this......

[IDOL]

ok, now i can take part in arguing mircle as there's no one opposing..................( ideas i might express is not my own caoz i haven't made one yet , i might use some of my book " philosophy")



------------------------------

before i start.......both of you said YES without giving reason............tell me where's miracle? how it occured? were you the one who experienced? or you believe in other's experience?



my arguement is, miracle does not exist........tell you how



if i tell you that yesterday i drove to University, and i found all calgary empty.....no human being, no vehicle, nothing.........are you gonna believe it?.......no, why?....because it is against law of nature.......Hume, the great philosopher of his time says........."A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature"..........



now you two prove Why and How you believe?

[Nimii]

Idol it depends on what kinda miracle we are talking about! We have to be specific on that aspect.

[myawan]

yes the word 'miracle' needs more elaboration.

[IDOL]

Idol it depends on what kinda miracle we are talking about! We have to be specific on that aspect.

i agree that mircale covers many things( as i discussed in my class as well)...........but think about beginnings.......a dead rising from the grave.....seeing an alien........sudden darkness all over the world......seeing a person that others can't see......etc



( in my book "Philosophy", they are not very specific either, but over all, they argue about those thoughts human beings carried over the generations.... maybe, like seeing things hard to beleive )

[Nimii]

Are we talking about miracles as in the case of a magical happenings or something to do with our thought processes.

A thing that was considered impossible, but happens beyond our belief.

We can see it anyway.

[IDOL]

Are we talking about miracles as in the case of a magical happenings or something to do with our thought processes.

A thing that was considered impossible, but happens beyond our belief.

We can see it anyway.

ok mela bacha, let's get out of this confusion.

• define miracle in ur own way
• explain it
• refer to an event in which u found a miracle
• give reason(s) for believing or support it by a reason

as i disagreed (above) by giving reason that it is against of law of nature to believe in miracles.

[NATURE]

khobi jaan, i must tell you i don't know much about all these. sometimes i think i would never come
to any conclusion, so why to think ? there's no end of this debate, is there any end ?

God and Science

god is when yr curiosity and fascination dominate yr logic and reasoning. science is just its opposite.
in both the cases, your sole purpose is to uncover the mysteries of the nature, lives & deaths.
but whatever way you prefer, curiosity is a must.

1. god is there when we feel we are created by another supernatural creature and he/she is the
supreme. we are just parts of him. he decides everything, he's the creator as well as the destroyer.

2. science is there when we feel there's a law of nature, nature follows certain rules and regulations.
there's an answer to questions like: how did the universe come into existence, then how did living
beings come into existence and saveral other natural phenomena.
science has answered to many such questions and is still trying to uncover many mysteries including
the reasons behind lives & deaths.

so what do you prefer ? god or science ? god is static and science is dymanic. it's growing and
trying to discover every natural phenomenon. when we believe in god we stop thinking
scientifically. we think there's only one behind everything. then prove it no ? why do u just believe and
say all what science has given us, told us is less than what god is meant to us.
i don't say: don't believe in god, i say discover god scientifically. use yr logic & reasoning to discover
everything, to prove the existence of god.
this is what science follows (and perhaps this is the reason science is still silent in this matter. don't say
that science can't say anything about life & death that means god exists, if u think it exists prove it.
science wants to think, experiment and then formulate) ... so, what do you follow ?

To what extend to follow law? (Socrates Trial & Law)
Why we are in this world?
What should we do in this world?

breathtaking questions. let me take breath first.

Do you believe in mirecles?

i haven't faced any, other than what i heard. can't support it with my limited knowledge.

Do you believe in miracles?

Yes I do !

you do ? who is that man nimmi ji ?

Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove
the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not
bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries.

God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he
created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards
unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM.

hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate.
kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ?
if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks
we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know
who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho.

[*]define miracle in ur own way
[*]explain it
[*]refer to an event in which u found a miracle
[*]give reason(s) for believing or support it by a reason

as far as i think miracles may be defined in 2 ways:

1. miracle is something unexpected, very very unexpected. it's too difficult but may not be impossible
though the situation says it can't happen but it may happen in certain conditions. probability is too low
but not zero.

2. miracle is something that forces nature to go against it, it forces nature not to follow its laws
or miracles happen when nature disobey its rules & regulations. this is called impossible(as we refer it).

few examples: someday u discover that playing a certain kind of music at a particular time can
cure cancer. sounds impossible ? but there may be a possibility to cure some diseases if not cancer

tansen could fire everything by singing raag deepak, he could make rain fall by singing raag megh
this is another example of miracle. u believe ? may be possible, resonance may occur when you
excite the cloud molecules, excite them by certain waves of a definite frequency and rail will fall.
music is just a continuous flow of molecules(vibration) excited in a definite fashion, this excitation
may excite those cloud molecules. and in this case raag megh may be a help.

miracle is when you were already dead but you just got your life back.

***********************

khobi jaan, bahut ho gayaa naa ? bore ho gaye kya ? aapkaa kya kehnaa hai ? vaise hum kuchh
bhi kahe kuchh sawaal aise hai jinkaa abhitak koi jawaab nahi milaa. kise pataa kab milenge ? roushni daalte rahiye,
cheeze saaf saaf dikhaai dete rahenge. disover and discover, that's what human being can do.

[myawan]

hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate.
kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ?
if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks
we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know
who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho.

Thanks for your reply......

......Insaan ka zehen mehdood (restricted) hai like all other animals, take an example of a donkey, does a donkey know that who created his master (any human being)???? Ofcourse man's mind is much more complex and advanced but STILL that is limited, we do know a lot but STILL doesn't know everything and this knowledge is not required for our success either.
Secondly there isn't any reason behind every reason, can you give me a reason for having two ears while one nose????? Does you think that such a complex human body is produced without any huge and ultimate knowledge behind it. Sun rises in the east and sets in the west daily without colliding with other planets and its been happening for millions of years.....Is it possible without someone controlling all this???? Study the nature and you'll find God in every bit of it.
The GOD is the super power, if he wants that people worship Him then its HIS right and HE is very just, He has promised us the great rewards in return. Who created this universe?? Who created human beings and most importantly gave them mind!!! THINK WHY???? KYA YEH SAB AIK ITTEFAQ HAI????

waiting for your reply and your objections ofcourse

[LEGENDRAFI]

hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate.
kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ?
if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks
we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know
who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho.

Thanks for your reply......

......Insaan ka zehen mehdood (restricted) hai like all other animals, take an example of a donkey, does a donkey know that who created his master (any human being)???? Ofcourse man's mind is much more complex and advanced but STILL that is limited, we do know a lot but STILL doesn't know everything and this knowledge is not required for our success either.
Secondly there isn't any reason behind every reason, can you give me a reason for having two ears while one nose????? Does you think that such a complex human body is produced without any huge and ultimate knowledge behind it. Sun rises in the east and sets in the west daily without colliding with other planets and its been happening for millions of years.....Is it possible without someone controlling all this???? Study the nature and you'll find God in every bit of it.
The GOD is the super power, if he wants that people worship Him then its HIS right and HE is very just, He has promised us the great rewards in return. Who created this universe?? Who created human beings and most importantly gave them mind!!! THINK WHY???? KYA YEH SAB AIK ITTEFAQ HAI????

waiting for your reply and your objections ofcourse

Myawan Bhai very rightly put indeed!

Those who question God as being the ultimate power sure have some thinking to do and of course they need to come up with better points to support their theory. I do understand that almost everything can be explained through a scientific process but when you consider how small we humans are before nature, the realisation that things are really not in our control also sets in rather quickly! A Tsunami or an Earthquake or for that matter an overflowing river still have the potential to create huge destruction and devastation to human life and that is where the grandnness of nature and also the sheer helplessness of the human race can be seen in it's entireness.

However, the fact that even after all this, we humans show the courage and resilience to pick ourselves up and move ahead with our lives, presents a very interesting paradox to the whole situation. What this shows is that something far bigger than us and far bigger than the nature around us exists, and it is this existence that we mere mortals are tempted to call 'GOD'. Irrespective of the shape, name or description that you might use to explain this presence, the fact remains that it is this mysterious existence that controls us and everything else that is around us.

I am sorry if my words don't explain much but that's expected, isn't it? If mere words could describe a force like 'GOD' we could well have unearthed what continues to be the biggest mystery of all - LIFE!

[myawan]

If mere words could describe a force like 'GOD' we could well have unearthed what continues to be the biggest mystery of all - LIFE!

Very very true!!!

[IDOL]

khobi jaan, i must tell you i don't know much about all these. sometimes i think i would never come
to any conclusion, so why to think ? there's no end of this debate, is there any end ?

God and Science

god is when yr curiosity and fascination dominate yr logic and reasoning. science is just its opposite.
in both the cases, your sole purpose is to uncover the mysteries of the nature, lives & deaths.
but whatever way you prefer, curiosity is a must.

1. god is there when we feel we are created by another supernatural creature and he/she is the
supreme. we are just parts of him. he decides everything, he's the creator as well as the destroyer.

2. science is there when we feel there's a law of nature, nature follows certain rules and regulations.
there's an answer to questions like: how did the universe come into existence, then how did living
beings come into existence and saveral other natural phenomena.
science has answered to many such questions and is still trying to uncover many mysteries including
the reasons behind lives & deaths.

so what do you prefer ? god or science ? god is static and science is dymanic. it's growing and
trying to discover every natural phenomenon. when we believe in god we stop thinking
scientifically. we think there's only one behind everything. then prove it no ? why do u just believe and
say all what science has given us, told us is less than what god is meant to us.
i don't say: don't believe in god, i say discover god scientifically. use yr logic & reasoning to discover
everything, to prove the existence of god.
this is what science follows (and perhaps this is the reason science is still silent in this matter. don't say
that science can't say anything about life & death that means god exists, if u think it exists prove it.
science wants to think, experiment and then formulate) ... so, what do you follow ?

To what extend to follow law? (Socrates Trial & Law)
Why we are in this world?
What should we do in this world?

breathtaking questions. let me take breath first.

Do you believe in mirecles?

i haven't faced any, other than what i heard. can't support it with my limited knowledge.

Do you believe in miracles?

Yes I do !

you do ? who is that man nimmi ji ?

Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove
the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not
bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries.

God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he
created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards
unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM.

hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate.
kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ?
if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks
we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know
who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho.

[*]define miracle in ur own way
[*]explain it
[*]refer to an event in which u found a miracle
[*]give reason(s) for believing or support it by a reason

as far as i think miracles may be defined in 2 ways:

1. miracle is something unexpected, very very unexpected. it's too difficult but may not be impossible
though the situation says it can't happen but it may happen in certain conditions. probability is too low
but not zero.

2. miracle is something that forces nature to go against it, it forces nature not to follow its laws
or miracles happen when nature disobey its rules & regulations. this is called impossible(as we refer it).

few examples: someday u discover that playing a certain kind of music at a particular time can
cure cancer. sounds impossible ? but there may be a possibility to cure some diseases if not cancer

tansen could fire everything by singing raag deepak, he could make rain fall by singing raag megh
this is another example of miracle. u believe ? may be possible, resonance may occur when you
excite the cloud molecules, excite them by certain waves of a definite frequency and rail will fall.
music is just a continuous flow of molecules(vibration) excited in a definite fashion, this excitation
may excite those cloud molecules. and in this case raag megh may be a help.

miracle is when you were already dead but you just got your life back.

***********************

khobi jaan, bahut ho gayaa naa ? bore ho gaye kya ? aapkaa kya kehnaa hai ? vaise hum kuchh
bhi kahe kuchh sawaal aise hai jinkaa abhitak koi jawaab nahi milaa. kise pataa kab milenge ? roushni daalte rahiye,
cheeze saaf saaf dikhaai dete rahenge. disover and discover, that's what human being can do.

nahe, KHobi jan never get bored, Nature jan.



ok, the idea of God and Science is pretty convincing for me...i may not go further....BUT the idea of miracle..u didn't give me an event....a Premise or support...so that i can believe....so your argue does not convince me....i believe (?-----)miracles do not exist....it is against law of nature ......it's an ordered flow of river that cannot go back.....now if u believe in miracle prove it...gew me an evident to accept