Does God Exist ?, Yes, Says the Prince of Mathematicians !!! Options

[NATURE]

Catch !!!
Very true, especially I like the sentence that begins with "until and unless".

Could your mathematical theory tell us which god is this?
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu or what? Which is the true one?

This is exactly what we used to ask the older ones or who believe in God,
If God exists then why there are various types of ways to devote/believe them ?
Islam, Hindu, Christian etc. Infact, these were created by Human. World
Has different socities, so different philosophies, so we discovered different Gods.
Similary if god can do anything then ask him/her to create such a stone that he can't
Lift up.
-------------------
Mandrake, your 3rd point is quite remarkable. If somebody does "tapasya"(Devotion), he will surely
Get powers from God, that's the way the rule was made. If he takes disadvantages of the power then
God will definitely find some other way to stop him. It's not that he shouldn't have
Given high powers. Like recall the fact: "Narakasura killed Hiranyakashyap.
What Hiranyakashyap has is: Nobody could kill him either in Day or in Night, no man or woman.
Not on Earth or in Heaven. It's not that Narakasura couldn't kill him as the way he normally
Does. He could definitely kill if he is a god. But that way those powers couldn't be
Justified and perhaps nobody would believe in supernatural powers.
So he killed him and at the same time respected the powers.

Bible, Quran, Geeta all these were written by Human, whatever they thought in those
Times they wrote to direct the society to live an ideal life. What consequences a particular
Character may have, they have shown that by writing those books. Another thing believing in God
May stop many people doing wrong and awful.
--------------------
Well said Anurag. The 3 basic properties of God are: omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent.
No evidence to justify them. If God exists so do the Ghosts, Angels, Demons.
Earlier when Indian people couldn't justify the reason of rain they discovered "Indra", similarly
Greek people discovered some other God. Discovery of "Hell & Heaven" has its own reason.
To inspire others to do good and NOT to do bad. Nobody could give a single significance of all
These. Islam sees God in different form, Hinduism sees differently and so on. And why not ?
All were created by we, the people. Some came from India, some came from Europe and some from
Arab. All have had different visions.

Anurag, another interesting thing you know about your "Faculty, reason" ? People know it all, they
Just follow blindly and make an assumption that God exists otherwise Universe couldn't exist.
Your points are too good and simple enough to grasp. I know, you know, he knows.
But still he believes in God, his thingking/mindset is different.
A long time back, I read a book written by "Swami Shrila Prabhupada", the founder of ISKCON
Where he read: "People who are atheist, can't feel god think the cause of Gravity is as described
By Newton. But the reason is actually the powers of that Snake in the Ocean on which Lord
Vishnu sleeps". Just think if a student of Physics reads that book and follow ???
-------------------
Finally if I say: God doesn't exist cause

1. If he did exist, he/she wouldn't create many religions.
( If he created then why ? )
2. And God couldn't exist in all these forms at a time

Would you laugh at ?

---------------------
Oh, forgot to say 1 thing. Many many Congratulations to you for that matter !!!

[anurag]

Dr Anurag ji kitne acche likte hai Awesome.. We await for more Dr. Ji

N

I agree completely - Anurag is so articulate that it almost makes me wince! This is a guy who comes across (to me, at least) as having all the qualities I can never have in this lifetime - intelligent, cultured, extremely knowledgeable on such a wide variety of subjects, and so much more...
And now against my better judgement, I am tempted to phodofy a bhanda of his....
(Actually this deserves a seperate thread, and I did consider it....)

Although this has nothing to do with the subject on this thread, it is my great pleasure to congratulate Anurag on his recent engagement!

Anurag, wish you both the very best in life. Have a blast!

If this has embarrassed you, then I have succeeded in making most of this rare opportunity!

Hearty Congratulations!!

Shaibaal.

Nimii and Shaibaal, thank you for the kind words but the small post was unworthy of such unbridled praise. Just ask my fiancee as to how cultured I am and she would testify against that in a hurry. I am the poster child of badness!

There was no bhanda, dost but now that you have "bhodofied" it anyways, please accept my thank you for the disclosure and the congratulatory note.

---------------------
Oh, forgot to say 1 thing. Many many Congratulations to you for that matter !!!

For that matter, nature? But thank you..


However, let there be no diversions to this debate. Where are the most articulate fellas like Bibhas, M, T, P, and other A-Zs?

[bibhas]

However, let there be no diversions to this debate. Where are the most articulate fellas like Bibhas, M, T, P, and other A-Zs?

Jab Dr.Anurag ne naam lekar bulaya, to likhna hi padega na, articulate or not! To ay "poster child of badness", suniye my take on God.

IMO, God is a very personal matter, between the believer and God. And I am a firm believer in God. But I will qualify that statement by saying that the God I am referring to is not the concept that is commonly referred to. I have my own weird definiton of God which works for me in my quest to find "It". I define God as the sum-total of everything in the Cosmos from a big-picture point of view. So everything from the neurons firing in my brain to the galaxies of the outer-space, the existence of the universe, life, etc are all aspects that my God encompasses. And this definition also satisfies the criteria of "omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent". My quest to find the origin of time and the end of it (if there is one), the origin of life, before-life and after-life, and answers to questions like "Who am I? Where did I come from? What for? Where I am going?" are all part of an effort to find God.

So if you ask me "Does God exist?", then my answer is, if God doesn't exist, then what else does?

And who could have said it better than Ghalib who wrote thus:

Na tha kuchh to Khuda tha, Kuchh na hota to Khuda hota
Duboya mujhko honey ne, Na hota main to kya hota

Coming back to the commonly defined form of "God", I find that definition so out-of-sync with my thinking that I prefer to keep my distance there.

[shaibaal]

articulate or not!

Bihas, tum to shaayar ho....your powers at articulation are a given! Wonderful post and especially your Ghalib quote.

And who could have said it better than Ghalib who wrote thus:

Na tha kuchh to Khuda tha, Kuchh na hota to Khuda hota
Duboya mujhko honey ne, Na hota mein to kya hota

[Talaikya]

Bibhas,




J

[bibhas]

Shaibaal, & J - sharminda mat karo yaar.

[NATURE]

Wait a minute, you may find the following paras in a strict forward language, so please don't take anything
Seriously. This is just the way I talk sometimes to my friends, elder brother when and when we discuss such
Kind of topics ....

Bibhas, whatever you wrote in the 2nd paragraph is frankly speaking true and very true.
At least from Logical and scientific points of view, you have said the right thing. But you have
Changed the definition, you have changed the frame of reference. I wanted a scientific thought and
A Logical Description of God within the same frame of reference.

And God can't be a personal matter. You must provide a Global Definition, whatever you are going to
Say is not true only for you. It must be valid for all, everywhere and forever. So, if I say Electron is
Everywhere. Electron is in me, electron is in you. It was there from the very beginning. Nothing could
Exist if Electron ever die. Therefore, Electron is God. I don't want such unreasonable description using
Scientific terms. I want Scientific thought using tradition definition of God.

Now back to the point, you have a feeling of God. You have your own definition, right ? I agree, no
Objection. But what made you to think of a new definition ? I believe if you ever believe in traditional
God you need not create a new definition.

Great Albert Einstein said: " Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind "
I was wondering what did he mean by the term "Religion" here ??? Later in some other Article, I read
His definition of Religion is different. He didn't believe in Traditional Religion, he believed in religiousness
Of Science. " The Curiosity of a Person to know the truth, the secrets of the Nature
Makes him able to uncover all the facts and all the Beauty of the Nature, The Beauty of the Universe makes
Him amazed or surprised. This Amazement is the Religion in Science " ....
Now try to correlate Religion and Science in his previous quote.

Do NOT concetrate on Einstein's Quotes. It's not related to the Thread, it's just an addition.
And please do NOT think, I am agressive or offensive here. Now, keep pouring your Ideas !!!
****************************** Editing ************************************
Another Observation, I may be wrong but still wanna say. Your definition is not Traditional, but is your
Thinking about God is traditional ? cause your conclusion is "God exists if not then what else does ?"
All those who believe in Traditional God perhaps won't have any objection to accept you.
Am I wrong ? not sure ...

This post has been edited by NATURE: Feb 24 2006, 04:07 PM

[pranavjh]

I'm neither articulate nor anyone has "naam leke bulaya hai". Phir bhi...I thought i'd jot down a few random thoughts here.

Relating God and Science is a very interesting predicament to say the least. I remember reading somewhere that "if God is omnipotent then let Him create a stone that He cannot lift".

I am a firm believer that "Religion" and "God" are two different things. Religion is a prescription, a process, a path that like-minded people have invented (not discovered) that will make one feel elevated, free, happy and give them any of the positive emotions that us humans seek. God, in the way it relates to the religion is probably only that - a feeling of being free and happy. I think of God independent of the religion. I have felt very strong emotions when I went to Somnath temple, and when I went to Ajmer-sharif, and saw the beautiful picturization of the Golden Temple in Rang De Basanti recently. Not only that, I felt the exact same emotions when I ran on streets of Fremont, CA to meet/see Amitabh Bachchan. The only thing common in all these experiences of my life that I found was that it was the fact that there was a mass of people, large numbers, who were all there thinking about the same thing, in the same way, with almost the same intensity. That was the force, the power of that occassion that made me feel like I was with God.

With that in mind, and I think this is pretty scientific, my definition of God is that - God is "energy". I feel His/its presence when there's synergy such as the above experiences. Energy is everywhere, always constant, it can be transferred but not destroyed, it cannot be created - hence Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent.

I can probably go on but then this ramble will turn into a rant so I'll stop.

Thanks

Pranav

[bibhas]

Wait a minute, you may find the following paras in a strict forward language, so please don't take anything
Seriously. This is just the way I talk sometimes to my friends, elder brother when and when we discuss such
Kind of topics ....

Bibhas, whatever you wrote in the 2nd paragraph is frankly speaking true and very true.
At least from Logical and scientific points of view, you have said the right thing. But you have
Changed the definition, you have changed the frame of reference. I wanted a scientific thought and
A Logical Description of God within the same frame of reference.

And God can't be a personal matter. You must provide a Global Definition, whatever you are going to
Say is not true only for you. It must be valid for all, everywhere and forever. So, if I say Electron is
Everywhere. Electron is in me, electron is in you. It was there from the very beginning. Nothing could
Exist if Electron ever die. Therefore, Electron is God. I don't want such unreasonable description using
Scientific terms. I want Scientific thought using tradition definition of God.

Now back to the point, you have a feeling of God. You have your own definition, right ? I agree, no
Objection. But what made you to think of a new definition ? I believe if you ever believe in traditional
God you need not create a new definition.

Great Albert Einstein said: " Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind "
I was wondering what did he mean by the term "Religion" here ??? Later in some other Article, I read
His definition of Religion is different. He didn't believe in Traditional Religion, he believed in religiousness
Of Science. " The Curiosity of a Person to know the truth, the secrets of the Nature
Makes him able to uncover all the facts and all the Beauty of the Nature, The Beauty of the Universe makes
Him amazed or surprised. This Amazement is the Religion in Science " ....
Now try to correlate Religion and Science in his previous quote.

Do NOT concetrate on Einstein's Quotes. It's not related to the Thread, it's just an addition.
And please do NOT think, I am agressive or offensive here. Now, keep pouring your Ideas !!!
****************************** Editing ************************************
Another Observation, I may be wrong but still wanna say. Your definition is not Traditional, but is your
Thinking about God is traditional ? cause your conclusion is "God exists if not then what else does ?"
All those who believe in Traditional God perhaps won't have any objection to accept you.
Am I wrong ? not sure ...

Nature,
I did not find your language agressive or "strict forward" (???) as you mentioned, so not to worry dost. I agree, my definition is different, and so it changes the frame of reference. It is because my definiton is different that I had kept mum on this thread until now. As for "if God doesn't exist, then what else does?", it is very much within the context of my personal definition of God that I said that because my definition states that everything is a part of God. As for providing a global definiton, I think my definition is as global as it can get, it's really upto each person whether or not they accept it (and therein comes the personal aspect I was referring to).
Bibhas

[NATURE]

I did not find your language agressive or "strict forward" (???) as you mentioned

Kya Bibhaas Ji, aap bhi naa. Maana meraa spelling sahi nahi thaa aap to sahi shabd likh sakte the
Kyon meri be bajaa kheechaai kar rahe hai ???
**********************************
Regarding your point, the definition would be global if others accept this. That's true, actually my point was
It can't be a matter between "Believer and God", that's it. Anyway I am not satisfied yet, don't know why.
Sometimes I think God is neither a material thing like all that exists in the Universe nor a sum total of all the
Matters that we can imagine. And sometimes, I think God is a thing with a high Level of imagination, an Artist
Of supernatural standard, something that has the power to create and change the structure of the Universe,
That can change my life, your life. But God has it's own sense of humor, just like a living being but an
Extra ordinary living being. God could give shape to everything in this universe, no mater what kind of shape
God possesses. You say, "God is the sum total of everything in the Universe", he says "It's energy" ...
I say "Neither of them could perfectly define God", cause They don't have the sense in themselves.
I say something is lacking, don't know what.

Again sometimes, I think if our Traditional God doesn't exist then why do we need to think of a different God ?
I don't want to think of a new definition cause "God(Traditional) doesn't simply exist and everything else does" ....
We, the human just need to uncover the secret that how the Universe came into existence and rest of the thing
Is just a matter of continuation. I am still very much confused about my thinking ... so kindly let the conversation
Go on, I want to explore everybody's thoughts. My curiosity is so high that it could disprove/prove the
Existence of God ...

[Mandrake]

I did not find your language agressive or "strict forward" (???) as you mentioned

I am still very much confused about my thinking ... so kindly let the conversation
Go on, I want to explore everybody's thoughts. My curiosity is so high that it could disprove/prove the
Existence of God ...

Mujhse pehle kitne 'doubters' aaye aur aaker chale gaye
kuchh 'proofs' milkar laut gaye, kuchh 'disprove' karke chale gaye

woh bhi ek pal ka kissa they, main bhi ek pal ka kissa hoon
kal shayad 'bhakt' ban jaaoonga, par aaj tumhara hissa hoon

main pal do pal ka 'debater' hoon, pal do pal meri hairaani hai...