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Aliens

, Are we alone in this Universe?

 
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> Aliens, Are we alone in this Universe?
Nimii
post Jul 22 2005, 01:55 PM
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I wish o wish I would meet an alien (definitely wont call it Jaadu tongue.gif)

\../

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Nimii
post Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM
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SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.

Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.

Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?

Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !


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vivekpm
post Jul 22 2005, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM)
SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.

Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.

Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?

Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !


N ?
*



Very true. It is in our nature to look at the negative aspects. Forget the surroundings. Most of the time we say that this thing has went wrong with me. We somehow never tend to highlight positive side of Human existence.

SSji, what you have highlighted are all valid points to ponder upon but to look at the positive sides, can machine be considerate to fellow machines? can machines take part in wildlife conservation?

We are being bestowed with intelligence and it is upto us to use intelligence and decide what is correct and what is wrong? By giving intelligence, creator gave us an indicator that we are not required to be spoon-fed about what is right and what is wrong?

There have been many natural disasters and there are people who have come out to help those who have suffered at the hand of nature and there are also people who have taken advantage of such disaster and created scams...

As human beings, we are responsible for saving this planet and there are people and organization fulfilling this responsibility. On the other hand there are "Pataudis...".

If you look at it broadly, all the negative points are because of lack of optimism and lack of confidence on oneself.

To end it, I would say "Glass can be Half-Empty or Half-Full". It is optimism which has helped us sustain and which will help us prosper...

Cheers,

V i V e K ...

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suhana_safar
post Jul 22 2005, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE(vivekpm @ Jul 22 2005, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM)
SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.

Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.

Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?

Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !


N ?
*



Very true. It is in our nature to look at the negative aspects. Forget the surroundings. Most of the time we say that this thing has went wrong with me. We somehow never tend to highlight positive side of Human existence.

SSji, what you have highlighted are all valid points to ponder upon but to look at the positive sides, can machine be considerate to fellow machines? can machines take part in wildlife conservation?

We are being bestowed with intelligence and it is upto us to use intelligence and decide what is correct and what is wrong? By giving intelligence, creator gave us an indicator that we are not required to be spoon-fed about what is right and what is wrong?

There have been many natural disasters and there are people who have come out to help those who have suffered at the hand of nature and there are also people who have taken advantage of such disaster and created scams...

As human beings, we are responsible for saving this planet and there are people and organization fulfilling this responsibility. On the other hand there are "Pataudis...".

If you look at it broadly, all the negative points are because of lack of optimism and lack of confidence on oneself.

To end it, I would say "Glass can be Half-Empty or Half-Full". It is optimism which has helped us sustain and which will help us prosper...

Cheers,
*



Nimii & Vivek...sure guys, it is not that I am a pessimist, or a negative minded person. Infact being positive in such strenous times is very essential. Threre is definitely some light at the end of the tunnell.

I do appreciate that. I was simply highlighting some very harsh and true facts that we so often seem to oversee whilst living in our warm and cosy environment.



PLAYBACK SINGING STARTS AND ENDS WITH RAFISAAB. IN TERMS OF QUALITY, CONSISTENCY & VERSATILITY, RAFISAAB IS INFINITE LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF ALL SINGERS BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER HIM.
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Nimii
post Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM
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No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.

Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?

N smile1.gif
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
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suhana_safar
post Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM)
No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.

Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?

N smile1.gif
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
*



Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention plenty of positive things too. However it really hurts when I see people suffer, specially childen.


PLAYBACK SINGING STARTS AND ENDS WITH RAFISAAB. IN TERMS OF QUALITY, CONSISTENCY & VERSATILITY, RAFISAAB IS INFINITE LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF ALL SINGERS BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER HIM.
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vivekpm
post Jul 22 2005, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE(suhana_safar @ Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM)
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM)
No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.

Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?

N smile1.gif
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
*



Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention plenty of positive things too. However it really hurts when I see people suffer, specially childen.
*



Be assured SSji that your concern is not unwarranted... And people with such a noble thought may someday, in their own right and might, may work towards helping these people smile1.gif

Cheers,

V i V e K ...

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-- Will Durant

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shivani
post Aug 2 2005, 12:50 PM
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: )
Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. but anyone ever heard of books liek Chariots of God ( or something similar) which explores the possibility that we were put on earth by aliens. It is kind of difficult to understand, how an advanced world ( babylon and pyramidsand etc.) suddenly went to ruins and there does not seem to be a documentation on how all that was constructed.
Is it possible that our Gods were actually aliens ?
About a different life form, well non carbon based life forms are still difficult for us to fathom .. even if we are not trying to find another place to live biggrin.gif
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Mandrake
post Aug 2 2005, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(shivani @ Aug 2 2005, 12:50 PM)
: )
Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. but anyone ever heard of books liek Chariots of God ( or something similar) which explores the possibility that we were put on earth by aliens. It is kind of difficult to understand, how an advanced world ( babylon and pyramidsand etc.) suddenly went to ruins and there does not seem to be a documentation on how all that was constructed.
Is it possible that our Gods were actually aliens ?
About a different life form, well non carbon based life forms are still difficult for us to fathom .. even if we are not trying to find another place to live biggrin.gif
*




Shivani, I need to welcome you once again (provided you don't call me/us 'SIR' (ugggghhh))
When you find the time and the inclination, pls visit my blog. See the top of the page - click on 'blogs'. Go to 'Mandrake's Blog'.

Pls feel free to post your comments there smile1.gif

Self - belief is the most potent force.
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Poppy
post Aug 11 2005, 12:30 PM
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I really missed this section of HF

After GURU's music I guess I would be actively participating here for sharing knowledge and GAINING knowledge from others about ---
Astronomy , SPACE , Black Holes , Super string theories

VIVEK how closer can an alien civilization be found from earth ...u must go through DREK's equation ..... just give a google search for the same ... I am sure you will find good information on same

Rgds,

SAchin
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qhabibi
post Aug 11 2005, 01:05 PM
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I Want To Meet President Of United States Of America He also considered as Alien in all Parts Of World. But Question Is How?

..............QHabibi Most Wanted....................
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vivekpm
post Aug 11 2005, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 12:30 PM)
I really missed this section of HF

After GURU's music I guess I would be actively participating here for sharing knowledge and GAINING knowledge from others about ---
Astronomy , SPACE , Black Holes , Super string theories

VIVEK how closer can an alien civilization be found from earth ...u must go through DREK's equation ..... just give a google search for the same ... I am sure you will find good information on same

Rgds,

SAchin
*



Good pointer Sachin. While reading on Drake equation, one thing that fascinated me is a para I read regarding search for non-intelligent life. IMHO, the probability of finding non-intelligent form of life is slightly higher than that of finding intelligent form of life.

And to search for non-intelligent form of life, apart from doing analysis of planetary residual or samples, one more thing that can help us is to study the change in climate of various. Like some bacteria dumped earth into ice-age some 3 billion years ago, it is quite possible to find similar cases elsewhere in universe.

Cheers,

V i V e K ...

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-- Will Durant

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Poppy
post Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM
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Yes you are right vivek

another interesting part of SETI is that one group is interested in exploring intelligent life other than our earth ...knowing about their living circumstances..ofc the benchmarks are set according to our earthly environment e.g. water , air etc.
while another SETI researchers claim that these kind of benchmarks are of little use as scientists have found form of lifes on earth where LIVING is next to impossible for species like MAMALS , BIRDS ,etc.. e.g. Bacterias,micro organisams are found near natural hot water ponds having water temperature more tahn 60-70 degrees .
Just few days back marine scientists have tried entering robots in to sea deeper than ever ...can't recollect the depth but ...depth was around 6000-8000 feet (meters ?!) ...and they said that was total REAL ALIEN world for us .
If some day we find alien signal or another way of communication than problem arises of LANGUAGE !!!!! .... Scientists have found DOLPHINS , WHALES have their some sort of language which we knows as ULTRA SONIC sound waves....

will continue...sorry basss hai cry.gif
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vivekpm
post Aug 11 2005, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM)
while another SETI researchers claim that these kind of benchmarks are of little use as scientists have found form of lifes on earth where LIVING is next to impossible for species like MAMALS , BIRDS ,etc.. e.g. Bacterias,micro organisams are found near natural hot water ponds having water temperature more tahn 60-70 degrees .
*



This is exactly what I had pointed in one of my previous posts. The probability of finding life will shoot up if we broaden our search criteria.

QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM)
Just few days back marine scientists have tried entering robots in to sea deeper than ever ...can't recollect the depth but ...depth was around 6000-8000 feet (meters ?!) ...and they said that was total REAL ALIEN world for us .
If some day we find alien signal or another way of communication than problem arises of LANGUAGE !!!!! .... Scientists have found DOLPHINS , WHALES have their some sort of language which we knows as ULTRA SONIC sound waves....

will continue...sorry basss hai cry.gif
*



This prompted me to search for some information about unmanned exploration in deep oceans. Probably this is the news-piece you are referring to. It is absolutely mind-boggling and more I think of it more I am amazed by the depth of this topic. And so digressing from alien talks, here is the news article I found:

QUOTE
Think of it as the Mars Rover but at the bottom of the ocean, remotely exploring our own planet's most alien landscape for scientists back at mission control.

"This is how the science is going to be done," said Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington oceanographer.
  Students watch
  Zoom Niki Desautels / P-I
  UW oceanography graduate student Colleen Evans, left, and Zurich doctorate student Adelie Delacour notice a grayish hydrothermal fluid as they observe the remote exploration of the "Lost City."

In 2000, Kelley led an expedition using a manned submersible to explore the deep Atlantic Ocean. Her team stumbled upon something never seen before. The researchers discovered a startlingly massive collection of limestone towers located miles away from the tectonic "spreading" cracks in the seafloor that typically produce such structures.

Some of these hydrothermal vent towers were hundreds of feet high, prompting the scientists to call the unprecedented find the "Lost City" after the myth of Atlantis.

Yesterday, Kelley and her colleagues were in Seattle and also "virtually" back at the Lost City to demonstrate how robotics and information technology can transform deep-ocean exploration. What once required dangerous and time-limited manned exploits can now be done by remote control on a ship deck or in an office thousands of miles away.

"Bottom time is critical ... and we can now work 24 hours a day, seven days a week," said deep-sea explorer Robert Ballard, best known for discovering the wreck of the Titanic.

He spoke to Kelley and others at the UW from a ship cruising above the Lost City, about 1,600 miles east of Bermuda.

Ballard and Kelley are collaborating on this "proof of concept" project, largely paid for by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's office of ocean exploration.
  Shelf-like structures
  Zoom
  Shelf-like "flange" structures jut from the wall of one of the spires in the Lost City hydrothermal field. (IFE URI-IAO, Lost City Science Party and NOAA)

"Our oceans are 95 percent unexplored," said Ballard, speaking by a satellite video link-up from the NOAA vessel Ronald H. Brown. The celebrity scientist tossed out some other figures -- 72 percent of the planet is under water and so is 51 percent of the United States -- to make the point that there is a lot left to explore.

In a darkened room on the UW campus, the makeshift, temporary command center featured Kelley and her colleagues surrounded by video screens depicting Ballard along with the remote-controlled submersible Hercules poised alongside one of the stark, shimmering white towers of the Lost City.

The Lost City towers are distinct from the "black smokers" found at the seafloor cracks off the Northwest coast, which feature creatures that have figured out how to survive on the light-deprived, toxic and extremely hot edge of an undersea volcano.

Life (mostly microbial) in the Lost City is just as bizarre and extreme, but less well understood.

"One of the main questions we're looking at is how does life thrive down there," said Kelley.

Nobody has ever seen anything like the Lost City, said Kelley, but it probably isn't unique -- it's just that so little of the ocean has been explored, she said.

While there is some scientific research being done on this expedition, which started last week and ends Monday, the primary goal of the exercise was simply to show that the technology and approach could work for deep-sea exploration.

There is perhaps nobody better at promoting ocean exploration than Ballard. Yesterday's event at the UW often seemed more like an announcement of a new IMAX film (which, by the way, is involved in the project) than a typical scientific news conference.

A list of sponsors and supporting organizations, including National Geographic and Ballard's private organization, the Jason Foundation for Education, was prominently mentioned or displayed. A high school class from Woodstock, Ill., that won a naming competition for a new NOAA ship was honored.

"It's certainly a different way of operating," acknowledged Kelley.

But if that's what it takes to get the science funded and the public educated about research, she's comfortable with it. Kelley noted that the National Science Foundation's budget for oceanography was recently cut, which means some of the research ships will stay in port.

After most of the media and the high school students left the command center, Kelley and her team at the UW got back to work seeing what other information they could get Hercules to collect from the Lost City before calling it a day.


Source : http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/234479_lostcity29.html

V i V e K ...

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vivekpm
post Aug 31 2005, 02:36 PM
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One more prospect for life outside our planet?!!

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4197686.stm

QUOTE
Space scientists say their discoveries about Saturn's moon Enceladus are stunning, if just a little baffling.

Using the instrument-packed Cassini probe, they have confirmed that the 500km-wide world has an atmosphere.

They have also seen a "hotspot" at the icy moon's south pole, which is riven with cracks dubbed "tiger stripes".

But the US and European scientists told a London meeting they could not yet explain fully the energetic processes driving all the activity on Enceladus.

"There were signs from a long time ago that Enceladus was a strange moon," said Dr Carolyn Porco, leader of Cassini's imaging team, "but it is just so gratifying and fabulous to see all the results come together and clearly point to a specific region on the surface which seems to be the origin of a lot of that peculiarity."

'Strange' world

The moon has become a major target of interest since the Cassini mission to the Saturn system arrived just over a year ago.

Enceladus orbits the ringed planet at a distance of approximately 237,400km and is described as the most reflective object in the Solar System; its icy surface throws back about 90% of the sunlight that hits it.


It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange
Dr John Spencer, Southwest Research Institute
The spacecraft made a special low pass of the moon on 14 July, crossing a mere 173km above the surface at its closest approach.

This allowed Cassini to make observations of unprecedented detail; and they backed up data obtained by the probe's magnetometer instrument on previous flybys that hinted at the presence of a water vapour atmosphere.

But that was just the start of what is now proving to be a fascinating and evolving story.

"We confirmed the signature that there was an atmosphere but it is strange atmosphere," Professor Michele Dougherty, from the UK's Imperial College and the lead scientist for the magnetometer instrument, told BBC News.

"It seems to be concentrated at the south pole and the best way to match our observations is that you have almost a cometary jet coming off the south pole."

'Hard to understand'

High-resolution imagery shows the southern polar region to be relatively smooth - usually a good indicator of recent activity - but cut by a number of long, dominant cracks. These are the so-called tiger stripes.

They are about 130km long and roughly parallel to one another, spaced about 40km apart.

Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer shows the region to be much warmer than expected.

Temperature data from Cassini (Nasa)
Heat is concentrated at the south pole
Whereas temperatures near the equator are a frigid 80 Kelvin (minus 193C), the south polar average reaches 85K (minus 188C). Small areas of the pole, concentrated near the tiger stripe fractures, are even warmer: well over 110K (minus 163C) in some places.

"The amount of heat there is really hard to understand as being due to just sunlight warming the surface," said Dr John Spencer, from the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, US.

"It shouldn't be that warm at the pole. It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange.

"This is only the second place in the Solar System beyond Earth that we've seen signs of heat coming out of the interior - the other being Jupiter's moon Io."

The scientists think the cracks may act like vents, spewing out water vapour and very fine water-ice particles. Some have suggested there could be ice geysers and even ice volcanoes at the stripe locations - but these have not been imaged directly.

Interest index

The puzzle for researchers is how to explain such an energetic system on Enceladus.

As the moon moves around an eccentric orbit of Saturn, gravitational forces should subject the tiny world to some tidal heating. Radioactive isotopes in its rocky core may also be a source of some warming.

But scientists are struggling to make the numbers add up and are frankly baffled as to why the activity they see should be so concentrated in just the one region.

Presence of organics at tiger stripes (Nasa)
Cassini could detect very simple organics at the tiger stripes
"One of the most fascinating aspects of Enceladus is that it's so very small as icy moons go, but so very geophysically active," said Dr Bob Brown, from the University of Arizona, US, and team leader for Cassini's visual and infrared mapping spectrometer.

"It's hard for a body as small as Enceladus to hold onto the heat necessary to drive such large-scale geophysical phenomena, but it had done just that.

"Enceladus and its incredible geology is a marvellous puzzle for us to figure out."

Certainly, what the Cassini data has done is thrust Enceladus up the interest index of objects in the Solar System that demand further investigation.

Scientists may not be able to explain the "boiler" at the south pole but they are already talking up the possibility that conditions there could allow for liquid water below the surface - with all the implications that might have.

"It's quite likely that this moon will now join the ranks of Mars and Jupiter's moon Europa where you might have liquid water - and the biologists could start getting interested in this being a place were life might possibly arise," enthused Dr Torrence Johnson, a Cassini scientist from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California.

"It moves Enceladus from being a small denizen of the outer Solar System - a frozen iceberg - to something that's more of an active type world that we're interested in exploring."

Cassini discoveries at Enceladus include:

    * presence of a strange atmosphere concentrated at the south pole
    * atmosphere mostly (91%) water vapour, but with some nitrogen, carbon dioxide and other simple carbon-based molecules (organics)
    * large crevasse features at south pole dubbed tiger stripes
    * intriguing hotspot at south pole - anomalous warmth in the area of the tiger stripes
    * presence of "orderly" water-ice at south pole, especially within tiger stripe features, indicates region must have been very hot, be very young, or both
    * presence of simple organics along the fractures
    * indication that water vapour and fine material are being ejected from tiger stripes
    * fine ice material is probably the significant and sustaining source of ice particles that make up Saturn's outermost ring - its E ring

Cassini scientists are meeting in London this week ahead of a major conference of the American Astronomy Society in Cambridge next week.

The $3.2bn Cassini-Huygens mission is a joint venture between the US space agency (Nasa), the European Space Agency (Esa) and the Italian Space Agency (Asi).


Cheers,

V i V e K ...

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Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
-- Will Durant

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