Argue!, Philosophy Corner |
Argue!, Philosophy Corner |
IDOL |
Jan 29 2007, 10:46 PM
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#1
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
Hi Frienderallas!
argue over the topics:
PS. the arguement here is intended for educational purpose....the core is not the topic, BUT the way of arguing (Premises, Conclusion, Argument)..in case, it might hurt anyone's feeling, i appologize in advance .......................................................................
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IDOL |
Feb 2 2007, 10:34 PM
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#2
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
ayooo, no one yet...........c'mon ......priya where are u.........let's start this conversation............i get help with my philosophy class meanwhile
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Nimii |
Feb 3 2007, 12:13 AM
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#3
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 22493 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 3 |
QUOTE Do you believe in miracles? Yes I do ! |
myawan |
Feb 3 2007, 08:31 PM
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#4
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 4917 Joined: 28-October 03 From: Lahore Member No.: 57 |
QUOTE God and Science Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries. QUOTE Why we are in this world? God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM. QUOTE What should we do in this world? read my last para. QUOTE Do you believe in mirecles? Yes! Please argue if you don't agree........tell me your objections on this...... ============================== For me, listening to Mohammad Rafi is an addiction! |
IDOL |
Feb 3 2007, 09:59 PM
Post
#5
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
ok, now i can take part in arguing mircle as there's no one opposing..................( ideas i might express is not my own caoz i haven't made one yet , i might use some of my book " philosophy")
------------------------------ before i start.......both of you said YES without giving reason............tell me where's miracle? how it occured? were you the one who experienced? or you believe in other's experience? my arguement is, miracle does not exist........tell you how if i tell you that yesterday i drove to University, and i found all calgary empty.....no human being, no vehicle, nothing.........are you gonna believe it?.......no, why?....because it is against law of nature.......Hume, the great philosopher of his time says........."A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature".......... now you two prove Why and How you believe? .......................................................................
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Nimii |
Feb 3 2007, 10:42 PM
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#6
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 22493 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 3 |
Idol it depends on what kinda miracle we are talking about! We have to be specific on that aspect.
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myawan |
Feb 3 2007, 10:54 PM
Post
#7
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 4917 Joined: 28-October 03 From: Lahore Member No.: 57 |
yes the word 'miracle' needs more elaboration.
============================== For me, listening to Mohammad Rafi is an addiction! |
IDOL |
Feb 4 2007, 12:17 AM
Post
#8
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
Idol it depends on what kinda miracle we are talking about! We have to be specific on that aspect. i agree that mircale covers many things( as i discussed in my class as well)...........but think about beginnings.......a dead rising from the grave.....seeing an alien........sudden darkness all over the world......seeing a person that others can't see......etc ( in my book "Philosophy", they are not very specific either, but over all, they argue about those thoughts human beings carried over the generations.... maybe, like seeing things hard to beleive ) .......................................................................
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Nimii |
Feb 4 2007, 12:29 AM
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#9
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 22493 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 3 |
Are we talking about miracles as in the case of a magical happenings or something to do with our thought processes.
A thing that was considered impossible, but happens beyond our belief. We can see it anyway. |
IDOL |
Feb 4 2007, 04:19 AM
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#10
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
Are we talking about miracles as in the case of a magical happenings or something to do with our thought processes. A thing that was considered impossible, but happens beyond our belief. We can see it anyway. ok mela bacha, let's get out of this confusion.
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NATURE |
Feb 5 2007, 01:05 AM
Post
#11
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 1128 Joined: 3-May 05 Member No.: 2238 |
khobi jaan, i must tell you i don't know much about all these. sometimes i think i would never come
to any conclusion, so why to think ? there's no end of this debate, is there any end ? QUOTE God and Science god is when yr curiosity and fascination dominate yr logic and reasoning. science is just its opposite. in both the cases, your sole purpose is to uncover the mysteries of the nature, lives & deaths. but whatever way you prefer, curiosity is a must. 1. god is there when we feel we are created by another supernatural creature and he/she is the supreme. we are just parts of him. he decides everything, he's the creator as well as the destroyer. 2. science is there when we feel there's a law of nature, nature follows certain rules and regulations. there's an answer to questions like: how did the universe come into existence, then how did living beings come into existence and saveral other natural phenomena. science has answered to many such questions and is still trying to uncover many mysteries including the reasons behind lives & deaths. so what do you prefer ? god or science ? god is static and science is dymanic. it's growing and trying to discover every natural phenomenon. when we believe in god we stop thinking scientifically. we think there's only one behind everything. then prove it no ? why do u just believe and say all what science has given us, told us is less than what god is meant to us. i don't say: don't believe in god, i say discover god scientifically. use yr logic & reasoning to discover everything, to prove the existence of god. this is what science follows (and perhaps this is the reason science is still silent in this matter. don't say that science can't say anything about life & death that means god exists, if u think it exists prove it. science wants to think, experiment and then formulate) ... so, what do you follow ? QUOTE To what extend to follow law? (Socrates Trial & Law) Why we are in this world? What should we do in this world? breathtaking questions. let me take breath first. QUOTE Do you believe in mirecles? i haven't faced any, other than what i heard. can't support it with my limited knowledge. QUOTE Do you believe in miracles? Yes I do ! you do ? who is that man nimmi ji ? Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries. God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM. hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate. kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ? if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho. [*]define miracle in ur own way [*]explain it [*]refer to an event in which u found a miracle [*]give reason(s) for believing or support it by a reason as far as i think miracles may be defined in 2 ways: 1. miracle is something unexpected, very very unexpected. it's too difficult but may not be impossible though the situation says it can't happen but it may happen in certain conditions. probability is too low but not zero. 2. miracle is something that forces nature to go against it, it forces nature not to follow its laws or miracles happen when nature disobey its rules & regulations. this is called impossible(as we refer it). few examples: someday u discover that playing a certain kind of music at a particular time can cure cancer. sounds impossible ? but there may be a possibility to cure some diseases if not cancer tansen could fire everything by singing raag deepak, he could make rain fall by singing raag megh this is another example of miracle. u believe ? may be possible, resonance may occur when you excite the cloud molecules, excite them by certain waves of a definite frequency and rail will fall. music is just a continuous flow of molecules(vibration) excited in a definite fashion, this excitation may excite those cloud molecules. and in this case raag megh may be a help. miracle is when you were already dead but you just got your life back. *********************** khobi jaan, bahut ho gayaa naa ? bore ho gaye kya ? aapkaa kya kehnaa hai ? vaise hum kuchh bhi kahe kuchh sawaal aise hai jinkaa abhitak koi jawaab nahi milaa. kise pataa kab milenge ? roushni daalte rahiye, cheeze saaf saaf dikhaai dete rahenge. disover and discover, that's what human being can do. Jo Milte hain, voh nahi milte
Aur Jo Nahi Milte, Vohin Vaastav mein milte hai Kaaran jo hai, voh nahi hai Aur jo nahi hai, vohin hai. Ye keval Shabdo ki heraa-pheri nahi hai Aur heraa-pheri hain bhi Yehin Darshan hai Aur isi hone naa hone, milne naa milne ke beech mein maayaa kaa samudra hai |
myawan |
Feb 5 2007, 01:04 PM
Post
#12
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 4917 Joined: 28-October 03 From: Lahore Member No.: 57 |
QUOTE hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate. kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ? if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho. Thanks for your reply...... ......Insaan ka zehen mehdood (restricted) hai like all other animals, take an example of a donkey, does a donkey know that who created his master (any human being)???? Ofcourse man's mind is much more complex and advanced but STILL that is limited, we do know a lot but STILL doesn't know everything and this knowledge is not required for our success either. Secondly there isn't any reason behind every reason, can you give me a reason for having two ears while one nose????? Does you think that such a complex human body is produced without any huge and ultimate knowledge behind it. Sun rises in the east and sets in the west daily without colliding with other planets and its been happening for millions of years.....Is it possible without someone controlling all this???? Study the nature and you'll find God in every bit of it. The GOD is the super power, if he wants that people worship Him then its HIS right and HE is very just, He has promised us the great rewards in return. Who created this universe?? Who created human beings and most importantly gave them mind!!! THINK WHY???? KYA YEH SAB AIK ITTEFAQ HAI???? waiting for your reply and your objections ofcourse ============================== For me, listening to Mohammad Rafi is an addiction! |
LEGENDRAFI |
Feb 6 2007, 07:38 PM
Post
#13
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Regular Member Group: Members Posts: 781 Joined: 1-July 05 From: DELHI, INDIA Member No.: 2633 |
QUOTE hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate. kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ? if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho. Thanks for your reply...... ......Insaan ka zehen mehdood (restricted) hai like all other animals, take an example of a donkey, does a donkey know that who created his master (any human being)???? Ofcourse man's mind is much more complex and advanced but STILL that is limited, we do know a lot but STILL doesn't know everything and this knowledge is not required for our success either. Secondly there isn't any reason behind every reason, can you give me a reason for having two ears while one nose????? Does you think that such a complex human body is produced without any huge and ultimate knowledge behind it. Sun rises in the east and sets in the west daily without colliding with other planets and its been happening for millions of years.....Is it possible without someone controlling all this???? Study the nature and you'll find God in every bit of it. The GOD is the super power, if he wants that people worship Him then its HIS right and HE is very just, He has promised us the great rewards in return. Who created this universe?? Who created human beings and most importantly gave them mind!!! THINK WHY???? KYA YEH SAB AIK ITTEFAQ HAI???? waiting for your reply and your objections ofcourse Myawan Bhai very rightly put indeed! Those who question God as being the ultimate power sure have some thinking to do and of course they need to come up with better points to support their theory. I do understand that almost everything can be explained through a scientific process but when you consider how small we humans are before nature, the realisation that things are really not in our control also sets in rather quickly! A Tsunami or an Earthquake or for that matter an overflowing river still have the potential to create huge destruction and devastation to human life and that is where the grandnness of nature and also the sheer helplessness of the human race can be seen in it's entireness. However, the fact that even after all this, we humans show the courage and resilience to pick ourselves up and move ahead with our lives, presents a very interesting paradox to the whole situation. What this shows is that something far bigger than us and far bigger than the nature around us exists, and it is this existence that we mere mortals are tempted to call 'GOD'. Irrespective of the shape, name or description that you might use to explain this presence, the fact remains that it is this mysterious existence that controls us and everything else that is around us. I am sorry if my words don't explain much but that's expected, isn't it? If mere words could describe a force like 'GOD' we could well have unearthed what continues to be the biggest mystery of all - LIFE! |
myawan |
Feb 7 2007, 10:30 AM
Post
#14
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 4917 Joined: 28-October 03 From: Lahore Member No.: 57 |
QUOTE If mere words could describe a force like 'GOD' we could well have unearthed what continues to be the biggest mystery of all - LIFE! Very very true!!! ============================== For me, listening to Mohammad Rafi is an addiction! |
IDOL |
Feb 8 2007, 05:50 AM
Post
#15
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Dedicated Member Group: Members Posts: 5434 Joined: 24-January 05 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 1583 |
khobi jaan, i must tell you i don't know much about all these. sometimes i think i would never come to any conclusion, so why to think ? there's no end of this debate, is there any end ? QUOTE God and Science god is when yr curiosity and fascination dominate yr logic and reasoning. science is just its opposite. in both the cases, your sole purpose is to uncover the mysteries of the nature, lives & deaths. but whatever way you prefer, curiosity is a must. 1. god is there when we feel we are created by another supernatural creature and he/she is the supreme. we are just parts of him. he decides everything, he's the creator as well as the destroyer. 2. science is there when we feel there's a law of nature, nature follows certain rules and regulations. there's an answer to questions like: how did the universe come into existence, then how did living beings come into existence and saveral other natural phenomena. science has answered to many such questions and is still trying to uncover many mysteries including the reasons behind lives & deaths. so what do you prefer ? god or science ? god is static and science is dymanic. it's growing and trying to discover every natural phenomenon. when we believe in god we stop thinking scientifically. we think there's only one behind everything. then prove it no ? why do u just believe and say all what science has given us, told us is less than what god is meant to us. i don't say: don't believe in god, i say discover god scientifically. use yr logic & reasoning to discover everything, to prove the existence of god. this is what science follows (and perhaps this is the reason science is still silent in this matter. don't say that science can't say anything about life & death that means god exists, if u think it exists prove it. science wants to think, experiment and then formulate) ... so, what do you follow ? QUOTE To what extend to follow law? (Socrates Trial & Law) Why we are in this world? What should we do in this world? breathtaking questions. let me take breath first. QUOTE Do you believe in mirecles? i haven't faced any, other than what i heard. can't support it with my limited knowledge. QUOTE Do you believe in miracles? Yes I do ! you do ? who is that man nimmi ji ? Yes God created us and the whole world, HE is one......Science can't prove everything, it can't even prove the presence of feelings inside us so we shouldn't expect it to prove the presence of God.....Science is not bigger than God so we better expect outcomes from this within its boundaries. God has been for ever and will be forever.....He wanted himself to be recognised and worshiped, so he created human beings. And he promised that whoever will worship him and obey his orders will get rewards unlimited. So we are here to recognise the true God, obey and worship HIM. hum aapki baaton kaa avhelnaa nahi karnaa chaahte, parantu aapki baaton par vishwaas bhi nahi kar paate. kaise sambhab hai ? there's a reason behind every reason, how and when did god come into existence ? if u believe in his powers than how did he achieve those powers ? i am not convinced. and why he thinks we should recognize him and worship him ? and for that matter only he created us ? first i want to know who created him, who created god. gustaakhi maaph ho. [*]define miracle in ur own way [*]explain it [*]refer to an event in which u found a miracle [*]give reason(s) for believing or support it by a reason as far as i think miracles may be defined in 2 ways: 1. miracle is something unexpected, very very unexpected. it's too difficult but may not be impossible though the situation says it can't happen but it may happen in certain conditions. probability is too low but not zero. 2. miracle is something that forces nature to go against it, it forces nature not to follow its laws or miracles happen when nature disobey its rules & regulations. this is called impossible(as we refer it). few examples: someday u discover that playing a certain kind of music at a particular time can cure cancer. sounds impossible ? but there may be a possibility to cure some diseases if not cancer tansen could fire everything by singing raag deepak, he could make rain fall by singing raag megh this is another example of miracle. u believe ? may be possible, resonance may occur when you excite the cloud molecules, excite them by certain waves of a definite frequency and rail will fall. music is just a continuous flow of molecules(vibration) excited in a definite fashion, this excitation may excite those cloud molecules. and in this case raag megh may be a help. miracle is when you were already dead but you just got your life back. *********************** khobi jaan, bahut ho gayaa naa ? bore ho gaye kya ? aapkaa kya kehnaa hai ? vaise hum kuchh bhi kahe kuchh sawaal aise hai jinkaa abhitak koi jawaab nahi milaa. kise pataa kab milenge ? roushni daalte rahiye, cheeze saaf saaf dikhaai dete rahenge. disover and discover, that's what human being can do. nahe, KHobi jan never get bored, Nature jan. ok, the idea of God and Science is pretty convincing for me...i may not go further....BUT the idea of miracle..u didn't give me an event....a Premise or support...so that i can believe....so your argue does not convince me....i believe (?-----)miracles do not exist....it is against law of nature ......it's an ordered flow of river that cannot go back.....now if u believe in miracle prove it...gew me an evident to accept .......................................................................
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