Aliens, Are we alone in this Universe? Options

[vivekpm]

Sigh!

Quite possible!
and Vivek.. why do I feel you might be the Saboo

(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)

Quite unlikely for me to be Saboo. Size does matter you see

Cheers,

[vivekpm]

Vivek, computer jaise khilone toh sirf HF pe posting karne ke liye istemaal kiye jaate hain...

...not for serious stuff

What do you think life will be like when we have uncovered the fundamental concepts of energy conversion?

Issey khilona to na kaho - means of earning livelihood for some

Cheers,

[Mandrake]

So who said that living cannot be earned out of toys?

Leo-Mattel, FischerPrice, and a host of others would vouch for it

And what about computer games? Don't the makers of that too make money?

lol... sorry if I rubbed anybody wrong. Never the intention...

[vivekpm]

So who said that living cannot be earned out of toys?

Leo-Mattel, FischerPrice, and a host of others would vouch for it

And what about computer games? Don't the makers of that too make money?

lol... sorry if I rubbed anybody wrong. Never the intention...

lol... Was just kidding. You didnt rubbed anyone wrong here

Cheers,

[Nimii]

Sigh!
(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)

That is why I am scared to even tread here

[Nimii]

An interesting read on this site.. Ppl who havent been here may go ahead and read it.

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/exec/view.cgi/5/220

N

[vivekpm]

Soil minerals point to planet-wide ocean on Mars

An ocean of water once wrapped around Mars, suggests the discovery of soil chemicals by NASA’s rovers. But the same chemicals also indicate that life was not widespread on the planet at the time the ocean was present.

Sulphates, which form most readily in liquid water, had already been detected by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. The minerals have been interpreted as evidence for past bodies of water on the surface. But it has not been clear how large these bodies of water might have been.

Now, a new analysis of rover data suggests that the sulphates were once dissolved in a planet-wide ocean. The study was carried out by James Greenwood of Wesleyan University and Ruth Blake of Yale University, both in Connecticut, US.

The researchers point out that phosphates, which are also linked to water, are also present at both sites. More importantly, the ratio of phosphates to sulphates is about the same at both locations. They say the most likely explanation for this is that any local variations were smoothed out by mixing in a planet-wide ocean.


Acidic sea
Some researchers argue that a broad, flat area in Mars's northern hemisphere is the relic of an ancient ocean, and point to rock weathering that could have been caused by seawater. But the uniform phosphorus-to-sulphur ratio is the first chemical evidence that such a large body of water might have once existed.

The phosphorus was probably leached from rocks in the form of calcium phosphate, the researchers say. The fact that it appears to have been dissolved and mixed with sulphates in large amounts suggests that the hypothesised ocean must have been very acidic, because calcium phosphate only dissolves well in acidic water.

A phosphorus-rich ocean is a bad sign for past Mars life. Phosphorus is an important element for life on Earth, and is quickly extracted from the environment by organisms. If life were extensive on Mars, it would not have left so much phosphorus dissolved in the water, the researchers say.

"To a first order approximation, you couldn't have had a biosphere that was anything like the one on Earth," Greenwood says.


Lots of lakes?
Michael Wyatt of Brown University in Rhode Island, US, says the idea of a past ocean on Mars fits well with the phosphorus and sulphur data, but adds that several smaller bodies of water might also explain it.

"It's kind of hard to pin down smaller bodies of water versus one large ocean," he told New Scientist. Another possible explanation for the data would be many bodies of water that have similar chemistry, he says.

The researchers admit that the similar phosphate-to-sulphate ratio seen on opposite sides of the planet could also arise if wind mixed these materials together after the bodies of water disappeared.




Journal reference: Geology (vol 34, p 953)

Source

Cheers,

[Reeth]

If they are extinct, tough luck.

But if they are not, just imagine...

They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.

FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.

I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.

Mandrake, you have brought to light one more interesting point, what if they are superior to us? On they finding us or we finding them it may create trouble...

Cheers,

Skepticism greets claim of possible alien microbes

Jan. 5, 2006
Special to World Science

A paper to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago.

But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it.

The particles at about 1000 times actual size (courtesy Godfrey Louis).

The shaded area represents the state of Kerala in India. (Courtesy Nichalp)
The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.

“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,� wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper.

“Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?�

The mystery began when the scarlet showers containing the red specks hit parts of India in 2001. Researchers said the particles might be dust or a fungus, but it remained unclear.

The new paper includes a chemical analysis of the particles, a description of their appearance under microscopes and a survey of where they fell. It assesses various explanations for them and concludes that the specks, which vaguely resemble red blood cells, might have come from a meteor.

A peer-reviewed research journal, Astrophysics and Space Science, has agreed to publish the paper. The journal sometimes publishes unconventional findings, but rarely if ever ventures into generally acknowledged fringe science such as claims of extraterrestrial visitors.

If the particles do represent alien life forms, said Louis and Kumar, this would fit with a longstanding theory called panspermia, which holds that life forms could travel around the universe inside comets and meteors.

These rocky objects would thus “act as vehicles for spreading life in the universe,� they added. They posted the paper online this week on a database where astronomers often post research papers.

Louis and Kumar have previously posted other, unpublished papers saying the particles can grow if placed in extreme heat, and reproduce. But the Astrophysics and Space Science paper doesn’t include these claims. It mostly limits itself to arguing for the particles’ meteoric origin, citing newspaper reports that a meteor broke up in the atmosphere hours before the red rain.

John Dyson, managing editor of Astrophysics and Space Science, confirmed it has accepted the paper. But he said he hasn’t read it because his co-managing editor, the European Space Agency’s Willem Wamsteker, handled it. Wamsteker died several weeks ago at age 63.

A paper’s publication in a peer-reviewed journal is generally thought to give it some stamp of scientific seriousness, because scientists vet the findings in the process. Nonetheless, the red rain paper provoked disbelief.

“I really, really don’t think they are from a meteor!� wrote Harvard University biologist Jack Szostak of the particles, in an email. And this isn’t the first report of red rain of biological origin, Szostak wrote, though it seems to be the most detailed.

Szostak said the chemical tests the researchers employed aren’t very sensitive. The so-called cells are admittedly “weird,� he added, saying he would ask his microbiologist friends what they think they are.

“I don’t have an obvious explanation,� agreed prominent origins-of-life researcher David Deamer of the University of California Santa Cruz, in an email. They “look like real cells, but with a very thick cell wall. But the leap to an extraterrestrial form of life delivered to Earth must surely be the least likely hypothesis.�

A range of additional tests is needed, he added. Louis agreed: “There remains much to be studied,� he wrote in an email.

The researchers didn’t dispute the panspermia theory itself, which has a substantial scientific following. “Panspermia may well be possible,� wrote Lynn J. Rothschild of the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., in an email. “I’m just not so sure that this is a case of it.�

Others viewed the study more favorably.

“I think more careful examination of the red rain material is needed, but so far there seems to be a strong prima facie [first-glance] case to suggest that this may be correct,� said Chandra Wickramasinghe, director of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University, U.K., and a leading advocate of panspermia.

The story of the specks began on July 25, 2001, when residents of Kerala, a state in southwestern India, started seeing scarlet rain in some areas.

“Almost the entire state, except for two northern districts, have reported these unusual rains over the past week,� the BBC online reported on July 30. “Experts said the most likely reason was the presence of dust in the atmosphere which colours the water.�

The explanation didn’t satisfy everyone.

The rain “is eluding explanations as the days go by,� the newspaper Indian Express reported online a week later. The article said the Centre for Earth Science Studies, based in Thiruvananthapuram, India, had discarded an initial hypothesis that a streaking meteor triggered the rain, in favor of the view that the particles were spores from a fungus.

But “the exact species is yet to be identified. [And] how such a large quantity of spores could appear over a small region is as yet unknown,� the paper quoted center director M. Baba as saying. Baba didn’t return an email from World Science this week.

The red rain continued to appear sporadically for about two months, though most of it fell in the first 10 days, Louis and Kumar wrote. The “striking red colouration� turned out to come from microscopic, mixed-in red particles, they added, which had “no similarity with usual desert dust.�

At least 50,000 kg (55 tons) of the particles have fallen in all, they estimated. “An analysis of this strange phenomenon further shows that the conventional atmospheric transport processes like dust storms etc. cannot explain� it.

“The red particles were uniformly dispersed in the rainwater,� they wrote. “When the red rainwater was collected and kept for several hours in a vessel, the suspended particles have a tendency to settle to the bottom.�

“The red rain occurred in many places during a continuing normal rain,� the paper continued. “It was reported from a few places that people on the streets found their cloths stained by red raindrops. In a few places the concentration of particles were so great that the rainwater appeared almost like blood.�

The precipitation, the researchers added, had a “highly localized appearance. It usually occur[ed] over an area of less than a square kilometer to a few square kilometers. Many times it had a sharp boundary, which means while it was raining strongly red at a place a few meters away there were no red rain.� A typical red rain lasted from a few minutes to less than about 20 minutes, they added.

The scientists compiled charts of where and when the showers occurred based on local newspaper reports.

The particles look like one-celled organisms and are about 4 to 10 thousandths of a millimeter wide, the researchers wrote, somewhat larger than typical bacteria.

“Under low magnification the particles look like smooth, red coloured glass beads. Under high magnifications (1000x) their differences in size and shape can be seen,� they wrote.

“Shapes vary from spherical to ellipsoid and slightly elongated… These cell-like particles have a thick and coloured cell envelope, which can be well identified under the microscope.� A few had broken cell envelopes, they added.

The particles seem to lack a nucleus, the core DNA-containing compartment that animal and plant cells have, the researchers wrote. Chemical tests indicated they also lacked DNA, the gene-carrying molecule that most types of cells contain.

Nonetheless, Louis and Kumar wrote that the particles show “fine-structured membranes� under magnification, like normal cells.

The outer envelope seems to contain an “inner capsule,� they added, which in some places “appears to be detached from the outer wall to form an empty region inside the cell. Further, there appears to be a faintly visible mucus layer present on the outer side of the cell.�

“One characteristic feature is the inward depression of the spherical surface to form cup like structures giving a squeezed appearance,� which varies among particles, they added.

“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,� they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents� of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.

“The red rain started in the State during a period of normal rain, which indicate that the red particles are not something which accumulated in the atmosphere during a dry period and washed down on a first rain,� the pair wrote.

“Vessels kept in open space also collected red rain. Thus it is not something that is washed out from rooftops or tree leaves. Considering the huge quantity of red particles fallen over a wide geographic area, it is impossible to imagine that these are some pollen or fungal spores which have originated from trees,� they added.

“The nature of the red particles rules out the possibility that these are dust particles from a distant desert source,� they wrote, and such particles “are not found in Kerala or nearby place.�

One easy assumption is that they “got airlifted from a distant source on Earth by some wind system,� they added, but this leaves several puzzles.

“One characteristic of each red rain case is its highly localized appearance. If particles originate from distant desert source then why [was] there were no mixing and thinning out of the particle collection during transport�? they wrote.

“It is possible to explain this by assuming the meteoric origin of the red particles. The red rain phenomenon first started in Kerala after a meteor airburst event, which occurred on 25th July 2001 near Changanacherry in [the] Kottayam district. This meteor airburst is evidenced by the sonic boom experienced by several people during early morning of that day.

“The first case of red rain occurred in this area few hours after the airburst... This points to a possible link between the meteor and red rain. If particle clouds are created in the atmosphere by the fragmentation and disintegration of a special kind of fragile cometary meteor that presumably contain[s] a dense collection of red particles, then clouds of such particles can mix with the rain clouds to cause red rain,� they wrote.

The pair proposed that while approaching Earth at low angle, the meteor traveled southeast above Kerala with a final airburst above the Kottayam district. “During its travel in the atmosphere it must have released several small fragments, which caused the deposition of cell clusters in the atmosphere.�

Alive or dead, the particles have some staying power, if the paper is correct. “Even after storage in the original rainwater at room temperature without any preservative for about four years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.�

Source

Cheers,

Earth rocks could have taken life to Titan

• 18:08 17 March 2006
• NewScientist.com news service
• Maggie McKee, Houston

Boulders blasted away from the Earth's surface after a major impact could have travelled all the way to the outer solar system, new calculations reveal. The work suggests that terrestrial microbes on the rocks could in theory have landed on Saturn's giant moon, Titan. But whether they could have survived once there remains unclear.

The fact that meteorites from the Moon and Mars have landed on Earth confirms that impacts on solar system bodies can launch rocky debris to other planets. And previous studies have suggested that any life on the rocks could have survived the launch blast and the radiation and chill of the journey through space, assuming it lasted less than a few million years.

Such hardiness raises the possibility that life on Earth itself was seeded from space – a concept called panspermia. But now, researchers led by Brett Gladman of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, have analysed the reverse situation – that life on Earth seeded other bodies in the solar system. Gladman presented the results on Thursday at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, Texas, US.

He says only boulders at least 3 metres across could punch out through the Earth's atmosphere and escape the planet's gravity, and that only extremely powerful impacts could achieve this. The cause of such impacts would be comets or asteroids between 10 and 50 kilometres wide, Gladman told New Scientist: "The kind of thing that killed the dinosaurs."


Brick wall
The team ran computer models of such giant impacts, estimating that each would send about 600 million boulders into space to orbit the Sun. Some of those launched at relatively high speeds – faster than 6 kilometres per second – got as far as Jupiter and Saturn in about a million years.

In the simulations, about 100 of the boulders from each impact reached Jupiter's moon Europa. But along the way, Jupiter's gravity boosted their speed to an average of 25 km/s, with some moving as fast as 40 km/s. Impacting Europa's icy crust at such speeds would be like "hitting a brick wall," says Gladman. "This must be rather frustrating if you're a bacterium that survived launch from Earth."

But he found a different situation on Saturn's moon Titan, which boasts a thick atmosphere. About 30 boulders from each Earth impact reached Titan, and they slammed into the atmosphere at just 11 km/s – slower than most meteors hit Earth's atmosphere. "Those reaching Titan can aerobrake and drop their fragments onto the surface," says Gladman.


Home from home?
"That kind of entry should be no problem" for life to survive, says Allan Treiman of the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston, who notes that researchers recently found bacteria that appear to have survived the break up of the shuttle Columbia when it re-entered Earth's atmosphere in 2003. And Earthly lichen has also survived when exposed to the harsh environment of space.

"I thought the Titan result was really surprising – how many would get there and how slowly they'd land," Treiman told New Scientist. "The thing I don't know about is if there are any bugs on Earth that would be happy living on Titan." Titan's surface temperature is a very cold -179°C and its chemistry is very different from Earth's.

Gladman agrees that life may be unlikely to survive once on Titan. But he says major impacts may have happened "tens of times" throughout Earth's history and that these could have sent Earth rocks to other solar system bodies. "I just set out to answer this question: is it possible to get something there?" he says. "The answer is yes."

Source

Any comments specifically on the underlined statement above?

Cheers,

Very interesting topic.......i hope we have more discussions on this...

[Mandrake]

Very interesting topic.......i hope we have more discussions on this...

So what's stopping us?
Have a go, Reeth

[Nimii]

Well Mandrake everyone has "alienated" this thread so to say There are more burning issues to talk about psssstttttt than discuss poor aliens

[Mandrake]

It depends on one's outlook
One can make a home in even the most hostile conditions. The Space Centre is one such place.
They've found microbes on Mars.
We are said to have come here on the backs of comets.
So it is only a matter of proper approach

[Nimii]

One can make a home in even the most hostile conditions. The Space Centre is one such place.

May be they can send me! I have already received training for that and I seem to have emerged stronger and tougher! Good effect indeed!

[Mandrake]

For 20 million Ewe-ace dhaalers you can take a trip for sure

[Nimii]

Ok back to some serious stuff. Where did u read about us comin on the back of comets? This one is really new to me!

[Mandrake]

New? This one is as old as the hills...so to say
The earth came to life on its own according to some scientists, from the primordial soup.
It gave rise to all the mono-cellular/multicellular organisms that form the low life.
But it is said that the seeds of human origin came riding on the backs of comets that criss-crossed the solar system...

OOOOPS!!! Bibhas and Shivani, if you are reading this, I am dead