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Famous Songs & Their Inspiration

, Original song & later better-known version

 
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> Famous Songs & Their Inspiration, Original song & later better-known version
RajanCS
post Dec 2 2008, 10:08 PM
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Recently, EXON had uploaded a Asha-Shammi Kapoor song from the film Jeevan Jyoti - Chaandni Ki Paalkhi Mein Baith Kar - under Shammi Kapoor songs in Sangeet Ke Sitare. The song starts with a humming by Asha followed by a slow line "Chaandni Ki Paalkhi Mein Baith Kar....". This is then followed by the main mukhda line "Tasveeren Banti Hain ....Mere Khayalon Mein Aa, Mamta Ki Baahon Mein, Jeevan Ki raahon mein...".

This song appears to have been the inspiration for Dil Pukare Aare Aare of Jewel Thief. You will notice that the line Mamta Ki Baahon Mein, Jeevan Ki raahon mein.." of this song and the line "Jo bhi hai Apna Layi hun Sab kuchh saath Hamare" of Jewel Thief song have same tune. However, The similarity ends here. Burman Dada has provided music for both the movies.

There is one more Bangla song set to music by Hemantda from the film Monihar - Nijhum Sondhay whose mukhda also appears to be influenced by the main mukhda of Jeevan Jyoti song mentioned above. They have very similar tunes. Here also the similarity is limited to mukhda only.

Uploading the songs from Jeevan Jyoti and Monihar for ready reference. Jewel Thief song is easily available and therefore not uploading here.

Duration: 00:04:14
Bitrate: 128 kbps


Duration 00:03:16
Bitrate: 192 kbps


Rajan

This post has been edited by RajanCS: Dec 2 2008, 10:19 PM
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Amalesh
post Dec 3 2008, 02:12 PM
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Interesting thread.....

Faraaj ji, I do not know what you had in mind when you started the thread, instances when the Music Director has reused his tunes/composition skillfully or when we have had lifters brazenly copying someone else's tunes or taken a tune and added beats or increased or decreased the tempo etc but mostly not even doing that much....

For the second category we have a wonderful site on rampant plagiarism in Indian films http://www.itwofs.com/

Those of you who have not been there...it is a must visit. The site is very shabbily organized, but the content is great. Just scroll down a little and then on the right hand side you will see a list of Indian Music Directors. Click on any of the name and they will take you to the page where all of that particualr Director's lifted songs are listed along with the originals. For a majority of them a short audio clip is also attached.....you can just listen to both one after another and get an idea of what the copycats have done...and you would see Anu Malik lifting from Simon and Garfunkel (Taare Hain Baarati - El Condor Pasa) to Beethoven (Jaane Mujhe Kya Hua - Fur Elise), Boney M (Jawani Diwani - Bahama Mama) to Nina Rota (Raja ko Rani Se - Godfather tune) Mehdi Hasan (Dheere Dheere - Rafta Rafta) To Najam Sheraz (Bheegey Hont - Mainu Tere Naal)...... That guy is probably the most shameless lifter but he has had no monopoly on getting "inspired"......O P Nayyar to Viju Shah, Snehal Bhatkar to Chitalkar, SD Burman to AR Rahman have all succumbed to this temptation occasionally.....

On the previous more healthy category of Music Directors using their own tunes......this is a nice one...
Roshan in Soorat Aur Seerat....in this Mukesh number


Bahut Diya Denewale Ne Tujhko.....the prelude and interlude music was later used in Karan Arjun by his son Rajesh Roshan......Yeh Bandhan To Pyaar Ka Bandhan Hai....

Copying/reusing your father's tune is not plagiarism right....
It is your legal inheritance smile1.gif

This post has been edited by Amalesh: Dec 3 2008, 10:59 PM

नक्श फरियादी है किसकी शोखी-ए-तहरीर का
कागजी है पैराहन हर पैकर-ए-तस्वीर का।
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Faraaj73
post Dec 3 2008, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE(Yadavagiri5 @ Dec 3 2008, 12:44 AM) *

This is a wonderful thread. But, I am not quite sure what Faraaj73 meant by "Inspiration". Does it have to be from a different source? In the following example, the Kishore song follows the Burman song very closely. But both were composed by S.D.Burman. Does the second song qualify as the inspiration for the first? If it does, fine, otherwise, let me know. I will withdraw them.


Yadavagiri Ji

No need to withdraw. I was planning this upload myself. SD Burman composed a beautiful tune and Kishore Kumar turned into a parody. The parody is better known...

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Faraaj73
post Dec 3 2008, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE(Amalesh @ Dec 3 2008, 07:42 PM) *

Interesting thread.....

For the second category we have wonderful site on rampant plagiarism in Indian films http://www.itwofs.com/

...and you would see Anu Malik lifting from Simon and Garfunkel (Taare Hain Baarati - El Condor Pasa) to Beethoven (Jaane Mujhe Kya Hua - Fur Elise), Boney M (Jawani Diwani - Bahama Mama) to Nina Rota (Raja ko Rani Se - Godfather tune) Mehdi Hasan (Dheere Dheere - Rafta Rafta) To Najam Sheraz (Bheegey Hont - Mainu Tere Naal)...... That guy is probably the most shameless lifter but he has had no monopoly on getting "inspired"......O P Nayyar to Viju Shah, Snehal Bhatkar to Chitalkar, SD Burman to AR Rahman have all succumbed to this temptation occasionally.....

Copying/reusing your father's tune is not plagiarism right....
It is your legal inheritance smile1.gif

Amalesh Saab

Interesting reply and site you directed me to!

Yes, Anu Malik has built quite a reputation - I think I read an article on his plagiarism in Time Magazine some time back!

I don't know if Copyright laws will support a claim on legal inheritance....but I can tell you my esteem for Roshan grows with each song I listen to...and you have to admit its difficult to grow under the shadow of and equal the achievements of such a man!

Thanks for your comments and contributions....please continue to contribute....

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Exon
post Dec 3 2008, 05:13 PM
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Faraaj,

Very good topic.
Here is a song by Ashok Kumar which was made famous later by Kishore Kumar and Manna Dey in Padosan. The song audio originated from HF member.

Film: Jhoola (1941)
Music: Saraswati Devi
Singer: Ashok Kumar
Title: ek chatura naar (1:47 \ 160)


Exon

This post has been edited by Exon: Dec 3 2008, 05:53 PM
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abhayp
post Dec 3 2008, 11:12 PM
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Long ago, I had put up a mini-quiz on RMIM. I am reproducing the quiz as an introduction to this round of songs inspired by other songs. In this instance, though, the non-film original remains more famous that the inspired film song!

This was the quiz (it is not a quiz here, alas - the answer is right below the question):

A ghazal recorded as a non-film rendition in the first half of the 20th century 'inspired' a music director in the second half of that century to recycle it, with essentially the same tune, as a film song by a different singer. In the film version, the lyricist (not the original poet) made marginal changes to the second line of the 'matlaa' (first couplet) and wrote completely different verses thereafter (barring one tweaked line). Both the singers concerned were big names in their own fields.
Identify the first line of the ghazal, the two singers, and the music director of the film version.

Additional clues:
- Singer # 1 had a hugely successful 40-year career that started in the first half of the last century and ended well into the second half.
- Singer # 2 entered the music world in the waning years of the first half of the last century and is still going strong in this century!
- The MD of the film song has been heavily influenced by singer # 1.

isake aage ham aur kyaa kahe.n, jaanam samajhaa karo! smile1.gif


The answer to the quiz (again reproduced - with slight changes - from my own post on RMIM, with the songs themselves added in!):

wafaa_o.n ke badale jafaa kar rahe hai.n
mai.n kyaa kar rahaa huu.N vo kyaa kar rahe hai.n

Written by Behzad Lucknawi, this ghazal was recorded by Begum Akhtar in the late 1930s. It became one of her biggest hits and is one of the best examples of her singing of that period. Here is the ghazal (3:16 minutes, mp3 @ 128 kbps):



Fast forward to 1959. Madan Mohan - a great friend of Begum Akhtar - was composing the music for a film called "Jagir". He got Raja Mehdi Ali Khan to take the first line of this ghazal and compose a new ghazal for the film. He retained the basic tune - albeit at a slightly faster tempo (it seems to be a 'mujra' song) - and got Asha Bhosle to sing:

wafaa_o.n ke badale jafaa kar rahe hai.n
ko_ii unase puuchhe ye kyaa kar rahe hai.n

Here is the Asha song (4:02 minutes, mp3 @ 96 kbps)



MM has got Asha to sing the song in a near-perfect imitation of Akhtaribai's 1930s style, and she does a good job. Nevertheless, [IMO, of course] the film song is a pale imitation of the original ghazal: Akhtaribai's rendition has a spontaneity, rawness, and power that Asha just cannot reproduce.

In terms of the lyrics: the verses that followed were completely different from Behzad's original ghazal except for one line with a slight twist. Behzad wrote:

sitam Dhaane waalo salaamat raho tum
du_aa karanewaale du_aa kar rahe hai.n

RMAK adapted the last line as:

mariiz-e-muhabbat kaa ab haal ye hai
dawaa karanewaale du_aa kar rahe hai.n

Enjoy the songs!

Warm regards,
Abhay

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Faraaj73
post Dec 4 2008, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE(abhayp @ Dec 4 2008, 04:42 AM) *


wafaa_o.n ke badale jafaa kar rahe hai.n
mai.n kyaa kar rahaa huu.N vo kyaa kar rahe hai.n

MM has got Asha to sing the song in a near-perfect imitation of Akhtaribai's 1930s style, and she does a good job. Nevertheless, [IMO, of course] the film song is a pale imitation of the original ghazal: Akhtaribai's rendition has a spontaneity, rawness, and power that Asha just cannot reproduce.


Thanks Abhayp

Excellent example and I'm inclined to agree (strongly!!!) with your view on Akhtaribai being a better rendition.

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Faraaj73
post Dec 4 2008, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE(Exon @ Dec 3 2008, 10:43 PM) *

Faraaj,

Very good topic.
Here is a song by Ashok Kumar which was made famous later by Kishore Kumar and Manna Dey in Padosan. The song audio originated from HF member.

Exon

Exon Ji

Glad to see you participating and thanks for this beautiful song....

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Faraaj73
post Dec 4 2008, 04:33 PM
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It is said that Sajjad Hussein accosted Madan Mohan in a public place and accused him of stealing from one of his original songs to create his latest hit. Hear both songs and judge for yourself...




Of course, Sajjad Hussein must have soured towards Madan Mohan after hearing the lovely Preetam Meri Duniya Mein from Ada (1952).




I would call this intelligent 'inspiration' in both instances.

Enjoy!

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Faraaj73
post Dec 4 2008, 04:52 PM
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Here is a song from Ratan that Naushad Ali composed at the age of 25. I heard a Bulo C Rani composition recently (after joining HF) that was inspired by it. Surprising really, because in the same period that BCR was getting inspired by Naushad, he was also composing truly original tunes in films like Moorti and Rajputani....




Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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usrafian
post Dec 5 2008, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE(Faraaj73 @ Dec 4 2008, 04:33 PM) *

It is said that Sajjad Hussein accosted Madan Mohan in a public place and accused him of stealing from one of his original songs to create his latest hit. Hear both songs and judge for yourself...




Of course, Sajjad Hussein must have soured towards Madan Mohan after hearing the lovely Preetam Meri Duniya Mein from Ada (1952).




I would call this intelligent 'inspiration' in both instances.

Enjoy!

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Very true statement Faraaj Ji !
If the level of copied version is above original version then it is definately an 'intelligent' inspiration .

As per the link, shown by Amalesh, it is true that Burman Dada, OPN etc have copied few tunes from somewhere but the outcome was of much higher intensity, I could recall one song in such situation ..
'Mera Naam Karega Roshan, Jag Mein Mera Rajdulaara' laugh.gif

In Venkat's thread, HFM Balajigade Ji had uploaded two songs as per the main thought of this thread, would love to upload (one) here also..


Kaahe Nainon Mein Kajra Bharo

Mukesh & Lata
Film - Badi Bahu
Lyrics - Prem Dhawan
MD - Anil Bishwas
Year - 1951
128 kbps 03:09 min



Tum Ruth Ke Mat Janaaa
Rafi & Asha
Film - Phagun
MD-OPN
128 kbps 03:11 min


USR

This post has been edited by usrafian: Dec 5 2008, 03:27 PM

Dil Shaad Tha Ke Phool Khilenge Bahaar Mein
Maaraa Gaya Garib Isee Aitbaar Mein
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ayyagari
post Dec 5 2008, 03:56 PM
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I do not know whether these two songs qualify in this thread as the earlier song is definitely a bigger hit than the later. Also, the songs sound very similar only in part

1) Mujhe duniyawalon, Sharabi na sumjho from 'Leader', 1964, Rafi, Naushad,4.22 min
listen to this part:
kisi ko nasha hai, yahan mein khushi ka,
kisi ko nasha hai, gamen zindgi ka

2) Yeh manaa meri jaan from 'Hanste Zakhm', 1973,Rafi & Balbir, Madan Mohan, 7.52 min
listen to this part:
pehalna na jane, badalna na jane,
tamanna machalke, sambhalna na jane

uploading both songs, 128 kbps

Madhu


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Faraaj73
post Dec 5 2008, 04:44 PM
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Thanks for the uploads and comments Usrafian Saab and Madhu Ji!

Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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Faraaj73
post Dec 6 2008, 07:25 AM
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Since other contributors have touched on the topic of legal inheritance and intelligent inspiration, its necessary to find some example from the most famous of father-son MD's - the Burmans.

I'm uploading two songs in mp3 at 160 and 128 kbps respectively which are 16 years apart, both well-known and sung by Geeta Dutt in the first instance and Kishore in the second.

Enjoy!




Kind Regards
Faraaj


Kind Regards
Faraaj



Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent. - Victor Hugo

There is only one better thing than music - live music. - Jacek Bukowski

I hate music, especially when it's played. - Jimmy Durante

No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible. - W. H. Auden
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abhayp
post Dec 7 2008, 08:00 PM
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Let's return to another instance of a song inspired by a traditional 'bandish'. There is an old 'drut' bandish in the raaga Miyan Ki Malhar, sung by several Hindustani classical singers, that was adapted by Gulzar and Vasant Desai into a great song for the 1971 film, "Guddi". The song, of course, is "bole re papiiharaa", and the 'chhoTaa Khayaal" that inspired it has the same starting words.

From the many renditions of the bandish, I have picked one by one of the lesser-heard singers in recent times - Gangubai Hangal, accompanied by her daughter Krishna Hangal. I am uploading a short extract of the bandish (the concluding portion) to give members an idea of the original bandish. Those who want to hear the full bandish (just over 6 minutes) can access it at

http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?show...id=554673&# (post # 3)

The extract of the original bandish uploaded here is 1:23 minutes long and encoded in mp3 @ 160 kbps.



The film song, sung by Vani Jairam (her first Hindi film song, IIRC), is 3:32 minutes long and is also encoded in mp3 @ 160 kbps.



Warm regards,
Abhay

This post has been edited by abhayp: Dec 7 2008, 08:03 PM
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